Ep. 199, Navigating Grief, Dying, & Loss with more Awareness

1. Brenda

   0:00Welcome to Heartache Health and Healing.
2. 0:02I'm your host, Brenda Mundt. I started this podcast to share my journey after losing my husband, and it became a space for exploring how we could all heal, grow, and live more radiant lives.
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14. 1:45Hello, my friend, and welcome back to the podcast.
15. 1:47Today's guest is someone who brings a really unique and compassionate perspective to conversations around grief, loss, and end of life care.
16. 1:54Julie Wright Halbert is a death doula, end of life educator, and advocate for grief literacy whose work was deepened...
17. 2:01Deeply shaped by the sudden loss of her husband.
18. 2:04After spending years working in public service and advocacy as a legislative council and national education attorney, her path shifted towards supporting individuals and families through some of life's hardest and most human moments.
19. 2:17And today, she helps people navigate grief, dying, and loss with more awareness, intention, and presence.
20. 2:23And as someone who has been on my own grief journey, I know these conversations matter even when they're uncomfortable because grief touches all of us at some point, and learning how to move through it with support and understanding can make such a big difference.
21. 2:37So I'm really looking forward to this conversation, so let's dive in.
22. 2:40Julie, welcome to my podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

23. Julie

    2:44Thank you, Brenda. I'm happy and grateful to be with you.

24. Brenda

    2:47So would you mind sharing a little bit about your husband and how your loss shifted the direction of your work?

25. Julie

    2:54So no small question. I always laugh, you know, just so much, you know, these questions after we've gone through grief and death, they're so expansive and minor.
26. 3:04Where

27. Brenda

    3:05do

28. Julie

    3:05we start? But basically, Jim and I had the pleasure of meeting in law school, and that was many years ago.
29. 3:12We were married twenty two years and together twenty five years.
30. 3:16And Our life completely shifted when he suddenly really came down with symptoms that we didn't know what they were.
31. 3:24He literally died from cancer within a period of three weeks.
32. 3:30So he was in the hospital. We had a lot of testing done, which we could talk about, but then we went to MD Anderson and came home to hospice and he died within a week.
33. 3:43Wow. Wow. So I would say to you that all of that, it was very traumatic and there was just so much grief with us.
34. 3:54In some ways, obviously people do with sudden deaths all the time.
35. 3:57Unfortunately, dear cousin just passed away last night in her sixties with an aneurysm.
36. 4:04So listen, we never know. Life is just so fragile, but we were as a family, in our family unit, we were not anywhere prepared for Jim to die and to die so quickly.

37. Brenda

    4:16Yeah. And for my husband, he had gotten sick and it was eleven days.
38. 4:22So

39. Julie

    4:23you know this.

40. Brenda

    4:24Yeah. Wow. I definitely could relate.

41. Julie

    4:28You know what, there's something like, I mean, it's so interesting.
42. 4:30Didn't... I knew your husband died, but I didn't realize it was that quickly.
43. 4:34Do you mind sharing how he... What was he...
44. 4:36What did he die from in eleven days? Was it...

45. Brenda

    4:38He had COVID.

46. Julie

    4:40Okay. Wow. Okay.

47. Brenda

    4:41Yeah. And when passes, was like, the question everybody asked, they're like, well, did he have underlying causes?
48. 4:48And, you know, because they didn't, I mean, didn't expect that.
49. 4:52Because I'm like, well, like, I mean, nothing major.
50. 4:55I mean, he was a little on the heavy side, but not extremely obese by no means.
51. 5:00And his blood pressure was on the high side and triglycerides were on the high side, but that was it.

52. Julie

    5:08Wow, I'm so sorry. And again, there are no words.
53. 5:11Nobody can say anything to you to make it any better.
54. 5:14There's really, I think that's such a part of this process.
55. 5:17It's like, for your listeners, I'm sure is listening to multiple of your podcasts that each of our journeys are very similar and very different.
56. 5:25And yet the tragic loss of losing somebody we love so quickly is just extraordinarily painful.

57. Brenda

    5:32Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I was actually total with my husband twenty four years.
58. 5:38So you're in about the kind of within the timeframe that you were with your husband as well.
59. 5:42Yeah.

60. Julie

    5:43Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

61. Brenda

    5:45So before your loss, what was your understanding of grief and death compared to now?

62. Julie

    5:52You know what? It's a very interesting question.
63. 5:54I think that the way I connected and I was very comfortable with death prior to Jim getting sick, I helped several grandmothers and other family members transition.
64. 6:05I was even with my father-in-law, very, very close to his transitioning.
65. 6:11I really have a comfort around the soul and the transition in the space of our energy releasing soulfully, I believe, into a different dimension.
66. 6:21And so for me, even as a young child, I had an experience in which I felt a visitation from my grandfather and actually would feel like being, like, tucked in bed.
67. 6:31And so I definitely, you know, was I I didn't have a discomfort, right, that a lot of people have or with the fear and the anxiety and worry around death.
68. 6:41That hasn't been my experience, but nothing would shake my soul to the degree of my husband's death.
69. 6:48My aunt and uncle had died just within a few months prior to my husband.
70. 6:52We had just moved to Florida in '17. They both...
71. 6:55Aunt Hopi died in June 2018, and then my uncle, my mother's older brother and younger sister, he died in later September.
72. 7:04So really within six months, we had three family members that died, and nothing prepares you just for that shattering.
73. 7:12It just... You know, as I say in my book and I believe for your listeners, the question is, how are we going to move through the pain?
74. 7:20What is the beauty in the pain and how do we find the space to move through it?

75. Brenda

    7:26Yeah. Yeah. And when people make the comments about, you know, like getting over it, that is just like ripping...
76. 7:34Taking your fingernails and ripping them down a chalkboard because it drives me nuts.
77. 7:37I'm like, might just get over it. I'm like, you just don't get over it.
78. 7:42Like move forward or move through it? Yes.
79. 7:45But just get over it? I'm like, I don't think so.

80. Julie

    7:49It's always with you. Husbands, they never go away.
81. 7:53I connect with my husband all the time, which I'm happy to talk to you about.
82. 7:58Definitely.

83. Brenda

    7:58Want talk about that.

84. Julie

    8:00I'm really truly very grateful. I really am.
85. 8:04The bottom line is I've never had anybody tell me to get over it.
86. 8:07I don't know what I would do if they did.
87. 8:09I just don't understand our society. I'm sorry for your loss.
88. 8:13It's not like we lost a dog. A dog definitely a loss.
89. 8:21Trust me. When I'm saying death, saying

90. Brenda

    8:24death.

91. Julie

    8:24I'm I'm telling you, like, loss, like, like, you know, out for a run.
92. 8:27You know? But it is... It's amazing. Our society is just so uncomfortable talking about death itself.
93. 8:34And so, unfortunately, people don't know what to say.
94. 8:37And the one thing I always do say, which I think is really, really important, I was on a podcast recently with a group of younger widows who lost spouses, very young and had young children.
95. 8:47And, really, I was taken with them and just their resilience and kind of life.
96. 8:52But the idea is, yes, we carry them with us always.
97. 8:56Yes, we talk about them. But we talk so much about the idea of people being with us or picking up the phone to have a conversation and really at least what is that branch?
98. 9:07What is that root? Who is your tribe to help us move forward?
99. 9:12It's to be really mindful of that support system and be willing to ask.

100. Brenda

     9:17Yeah. I know I have plenty of people around me that were definitely willing to support, but for whatever reason, I felt like I didn't want to burden them.

101. Julie

     9:28That's interesting. Feeling like you're asking would be a burden.
102. 9:33And I get that because listen, I am a...
103. 9:35You know, as a lawyer, right, I was very strong minded, very...
104. 9:37You know, I'm very independent, you know, even obviously as a wife and as a mother and, you know, running our family.
105. 9:44But the bottom line truly is that in this space, I couldn't function.
106. 9:50I couldn't survive. Like, I'm sure, like, losing your husband in eleven days, like, I...
107. 9:54You can't breathe. There's no breathing.
108. 9:56Like, there's no room. Like, you... You're just barely existing at that point.
109. 9:59So survival is very real. I know that you do somatic work, and I think there's a lot to think about.
110. 10:05I was thinking about our conversation today and I kind of really mindfully what different conversation I could bring versus other conversations.
111. 10:13I think somatically, what does it mean to be in ease versus dis ease?
112. 10:17And I write about that in my upcoming book and I think it's really important to, what does that mean with the cortisol and the stress running through our bodies at that point of survival?
113. 10:27And you know what, often Brenda, we don't know what to ask because we don't even have the skillset to ask that space.

114. Brenda

     10:33Yeah, this is kind of like, I'm just trying, I'm struggling through each day trying to put one foot in front of the other.
115. 10:40Because when my husband passed away, we had the crappy conversation.
116. 10:44It's like, knew that... He always said, I know I'm gonna pass away before you do because you take better care of yourself than I do.
117. 10:53But granted, I'm sure he did not think he was gonna pass away before he was 60.
118. 10:58So nonetheless, we had the conversations and he's like, You need to sell our house.
119. 11:03You need to sell all my stuff. Because he had between vehicles, snowmobiles, trailers, equipment, I just had so many toys, it was unbelievable.
120. 11:14An 1,800 square foot shop full. So he said, just get rid of all my stuff and then move into a place, a smaller place that you can manage on your own.
121. 11:23So when he passed, I was very laser focused on what needed to happen and what needed to get done.
122. 11:31Financially, emotionally, I didn't wanna stay in our house.
123. 11:34I mean, it was just from a maintenance standpoint, it was just too much, too many memories because we built the place, and it was just like, I can't do this.
124. 11:43And the housing market at that point in time was on fire.
125. 11:47So I'm like, okay, if I jump all over this and kind of get things going, I can hit the market while it's really good and get a really good price for my house.
126. 11:55And yet to this day, it's been a little bit over four years.
127. 12:00And I look back at what I accomplished, and granted, I would not have been able to accomplish this without my family and friends, but what we managed to accomplish in a matter of like four to five months still blows my mind.

128. Julie

     12:11Yeah. Just, you know what? It's almost like somebody is taking over your body and you're getting these tasks that must get done.
129. 12:18And and, you know, it's really... As I was saying, just had a cousin who lost his wife.
130. 12:22And I think I was speaking to another family member today, and I think people don't talk enough about the the practical things.
131. 12:28Right? Like, you know, are the clothes...
132. 12:29All of those snowmobiles and cars, were they in both of your names?
133. 12:32Where are the titles located? Are the utilities in both of your names?
134. 12:39All of these things are extraordinarily important.
135. 12:41And as a death doula, a lot of people working with families, these are things that people would discuss, but it's just really critically important to have those conversations.
136. 12:50And unfortunately, people don't.

137. Brenda

     12:53Yeah, yeah. So speaking of death doula, so for somebody that's unfamiliar with the term, what exactly is a death doula?

138. Julie

     13:01Well, it's a really important question. There's people in the industry that are working now to try to kind of have more of a centralized system or a registry of doulas.
139. 13:11Some folks I'm just talking about with, it's called the other side.
140. 13:15Life. But what is a death doula? A death doula is really somebody who is bringing a level of support to the patient.
141. 13:24And I would say, whether it's the family or the circle of support, whoever are the caregivers that are surrounding that patient.
142. 13:32And the death doula, which is a very interesting point to make, may be working.
143. 13:37I do my volunteer work through hospice. And so I volunteer and I'm assigned patients through hospice.
144. 13:42There's a request by patient and or the family member.
145. 13:46What's really important is, who is asking for you?
146. 13:50Who are you working for? And to be really mindful.
147. 13:53So if you're going to meet with someone and they are in the dying process themselves, they may have some questions about what is going to happen?
148. 14:02What is the process of a terminal illness and how will I actually die?
149. 14:07And having hard conversations. Some of it may be spiritually, religiously, I am you know, filling the quotes, and I really would like for these prayers, these psalms, this ritual to be performed as I'm dying.
150. 14:22It may be anything from just holding space, listening, and being in the space with them.
151. 14:28So the thing about a death doula, there are some people that are very, focused, like, on as we're talking about, like, at the DNR, advanced directives, you know, some of the legal aspects, even if they're not doing them necessarily themselves or not necessarily lawyers, but they may provide, you know, advice and guidance on how to...
152. 14:46Who to work with or what... You know, things they need to get done.
153. 14:49It's incredibly important for your listeners.
154. 14:51If you haven't, I'm sure you've had these conversations around, you know, if you have a DNR, make sure that it's visible and available so that if something happens and somebody calls 911, that they know immediately that you have a DNR.
155. 15:04Because if it's not like in Florida, there's a particular requirement on a particular color of paper, a particular location.
156. 15:10It's just really important that, unfortunately, people suffer because people are unaware of the DNRs.
157. 15:17That's really somebody's wishes not to be resuscitated, not to be intubated.
158. 15:22It's really critical that it is known by people's loved ones, but as well as in this space.
159. 15:28So that's just an example. So it's really kind of like how do you prepare to die?
160. 15:33What is the process in which you're actually supporting and guiding?
161. 15:37Alua Arthur, who I did my death dual certification with her program, Going with Grace, she talks beautifully, Brenda, about this, but she talks about leaning forward and then also having a strong back.
162. 15:49So the whole idea is you lean forward to support as needed for whatever the patient and or family may need, but also to give them space where they need space.
163. 15:59So it's really... You're not as medical support.
164. 16:04The death doula is really there to, in my world, as far as being in a space with hospice, they have the hospice providers and I'm a volunteer with hospice and Florida's Empath Tidewell, but you're not medical.
165. 16:17I would never prescribe medication. It's very different in that space.
166. 16:22And I really think you're kind of providing a gap where no one in the medical space is providing.
167. 16:29So you're coming in as a medical care or as a nurse, even with hospice, you're providing medication to keep from the comfort care for suffering.
168. 16:37But it is different as you're really talking spiritually to what the patient may really need and or the family.

169. Brenda

     16:45Yeah. Yeah. Because it's been a year, we lost our mom a year in March, mean, and did like for her, we just had hospice therapy, so to keep her comfortable with all that.
170. 16:58But even with her though, we knew she was declining, but even when she did pass, it was somewhat kind of unexpected because she was...
171. 17:06I mean, kind of warning is that she was on her way out.
172. 17:11She was transitioning. She would kind of, like for two weeks, she kind of did this up and down.
173. 17:19So I think the night before she passed, she was having a lot of issues breathing and all that.
174. 17:24They ended up calling 911 and everything, then had a do not resuscitate.
175. 17:32So my sisters that were in charge of all this, they were there and everything, they told her, they're like, okay, because she wanted to go to the hospital.
176. 17:43They're like, well, wait a minute, that's not what you had documented.
177. 17:47Right, right. So, and I think a lot of it was all like confusion, but in the end of it all, there was this whole big debacle at the assisted living facility, but she did not go to hospital.
178. 17:59She stayed there, they made her comfortable.
179. 18:01I think they gave her some morphine or something to make her comfortable.
180. 18:05And then prior to my sisters leaving, she said that she was glad that she stayed there and that she didn't go to the hospital and she passed in her sleep.

181. Julie

     18:15Yeah. But what you're talking about is such an important point.
182. 18:18You're talking about, like, that bridge between where there's such fear around death and around acceptance.
183. 18:23Right? And surrendering to really releasing your soul to transition.
184. 18:27And I think there's something there between, like, where...
185. 18:30At least in the terminal illness space like your mom, is that where there's agitation and resistance when you can't breathe, when you want help and you don't really...
186. 18:40To understand that your body, your organs are shutting down and to understand the process of what's happening versus, oh my god, I have to go back to the hospital.
187. 18:49They're going to save me. They're going to provide services.
188. 18:53This is what we do in the Western culture.
189. 18:55Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's really confusing.
190. 19:00Talking about that whole issue of medical, hospital, palliative care, and then hospice is really important.
191. 19:07It's important for your listeners to understand that you can have comfort care through palliative and still receive medical care as well as you can have palliative care and be in hospice.
192. 19:16But once you're in hospice, you're not having further medical treatment.
193. 19:21Example, if somebody needs their kidneys are shutting down, they're going to do whatever they can do to reduce pain, but it's not medical treatment.

194. Brenda

     19:31On a different level, as far

195. Julie

     19:32as And your mom's talking about her going up and down for two weeks, as I've done more and more of my work and as I'm writing my book, I've read many of the times that a lot of religious, a lot of spiritual beliefs believe that the soul knows that they are dying within the last thirty days.
196. 19:50So during that time period, like what you're describing with your mom is literally a transitioning in and out of life.
197. 20:00If that helps you at all.

198. Brenda

     20:01Okay, yeah, yeah. Because now my dad's been gone for, he's going on six years this year, and he went into cardiac arrest.
199. 20:12But I think, I have no doubt in my mind that he knew, she knew well in advance that his days were numbered.

200. Julie

     20:23Were there things that he said prior to that

201. Brenda

     20:25make you feel? Yeah, things that he said, he got certain things in order because he wanted certain things, certain people to have certain things and he was doing, between the way he was talking and the things that he was doing, I had no doubt in my mind that he knew his days were numbered and he knew it was coming.

202. Julie

     20:47It's fascinating, isn't it? When I tell you, I've heard that many, many times.
203. 20:50I've heard it many, many times that loved ones said there was like premonition of different things that people said or close to the time period that somehow they had a knowingness that they were dying.
204. 21:02Yeah. I don't know how we got here. It's very interesting.
205. 21:08Guess talking about being a death doula, that's what got us there.

206. Brenda

     21:10Yeah, exactly. Because I wanna go back to the conversations about you being connected with your husband, but I wanna talk a little bit more about the death doula.
207. 21:20So you also speak a lot about the grief literacy.
208. 21:23So what literacy, I have my tongue tied on that one.
209. 21:27So what does that mean?

210. Julie

     21:29Well, you know what? It's a really, really important point.
211. 21:31And the more that I work in this space, the more I realize how necessary it is.
212. 21:37So let me tell you two major issues around grief literacy.
213. 21:40What this means is that, again, our society, how we deal with grief and death and how it's approached.
214. 21:49So in one aspect, I've talked on different businesses or others about workplace grief literacy, being positive death forward.
215. 21:58What does that mean? Not many businesses have bereavement policies.
216. 22:03So if somebody loses a family member, be it a parent, a grandparent, a spouse, a child, what is in place that gives them time before they need to come back to work.
217. 22:15Now sometimes you take personal days or otherwise, but often I've even heard about people not even either coming back physically to work or on Zoom and the death of a loved one not being recognized.
218. 22:28So what that does as far as demoralizing to the person that has had the death is significant.
219. 22:34Also, there's really a different state in, say, in the workplace as far as doing versus being.
220. 22:40Somebody may feel like they need to perform in their job, but if they're not seen, if their pain is not recognized, if their loss, grief is not felt, they're not going to show up.
221. 22:50And I share my own work environment. I had the benefit.
222. 22:53I worked, you know, as a national education lawyer for almost thirty years.
223. 22:57My boss was... You know, came... We had a private family service, and he showed up on my doorstep.
224. 23:02And I was like, his name's Mike. Happy birthday, actually, today.
225. 23:05We're not... He wouldn't know, but we're recording today.
226. 23:07It's his birthday. And he just was so present.
227. 23:11And he said to me, Julie, whatever you need, however you need, we are your family.
228. 23:16And it was a... It's a nonprofit at DC, but just like, we are here to support you.
229. 23:22So I felt completely enveloped. I felt total permission to take whatever time I needed.
230. 23:28But when the time came, I mean, which I laugh.
231. 23:31I think it's almost funny. It's not funny.
232. 23:32It is funny. But, like, based on my work, there was a huge issue out in LA.
233. 23:37There was a collective bargaining agreement.
234. 23:38There was legal issues that were happening, and my boss actually reached out to me.
235. 23:42It was it was, like, it was December 31.
236. 23:44Like, my husband died December 6. And he's like, I'm just working this op ed, and I need you legally to help me with whatever.
237. 23:50But you know what? He was so kind, and he was so present for me that I was resilient enough to show up for him.
238. 23:57So I think the lesson in saying grief literacy, you know, or again, like a few months later, had a US Supreme Court case.
239. 24:03It was a major case. You know what? I went back to work and readily, and it was needed.
240. 24:09And when you hold space, like literally, you know, as I'm, like, holding my hands up, when you hold your employees up and you see them, they will show up for the office, for the work.
241. 24:22But if you don't, they will not feel seen.
242. 24:24They will isolate, they will withdraw, and they will not perform.
243. 24:28So we're talking about what is return on investment on grief literacy and being cognizant and aware of what your employees may need.
244. 24:36The other area that I feel very impassioned about is in my work.
245. 24:41I was a national expert, I guess I still am, on special education law and five zero four of the ADA.
246. 24:48So children that are going through grief, I had a five zero four plan for my son who was 16 at the time.
247. 24:55We had two boys. They were 16 and 19 at the time of Jim's death.
248. 24:59And my 16 year old was in his junior year of high school.
249. 25:03And he needed supports because he emotionally, the trauma of losing your dad in weeks was significant.
250. 25:11And so really needed supports in the school environment.
251. 25:14They both are very bright, but that doesn't matter.
252. 25:16Like, when you can't... When you emotionally are so drained and you can't see the light of day, you know, we really needed support.
253. 25:24So the principal, the school counselor, we had a five zero four plan.
254. 25:27So, again, I do work in Florida. Our hospice, which is something for anybody listening that's interested, we are looking at expanding throughout the state of Florida.
255. 25:36It's Empath Tidewell. There's a program called Blue Butterfly that people should look up on the Internet.
256. 25:41But Blue Butterfly is a wonderful grief therapy program from your youngest children to kids that are middle aged and adolescents.
257. 25:49So really young kids through teenagers, and they have a grief therapy support program.
258. 25:54The kids come together. Like they call it your special person because it could be anybody.
259. 25:59It could be a sibling, a parent, a grandparent, whomever, a guardian, but they are very inclusive and children feel seen by their peers.
260. 26:08And what happens is, unfortunately, school, Brenda, is that children are bullied and that other people sometimes, especially middle school, they think a child is getting special treatment because somebody died.
261. 26:20As a result, literally, there's bullying issues.
262. 26:23So again, that's grief literacy to understand how do we support our youth that are faced with death, suicide, whatever of somebody that's a special person in their lives that they count on.
263. 26:37They're dealing with significant trauma and grief from a death.
264. 26:41So that is the other area that I'm deeply committed to.
265. 26:44My mom is involved with this Blue Butterfly program.
266. 26:47We started together in 2020, and she's continued to do it biweekly.
267. 26:52I moved to doing more death doula work, but she is so committed.
268. 26:56Even yesterday, I was talking to Empath Tidewell staff with our foundation and how we can financially support building out this grief therapy program throughout the state.
269. 27:07And I hope as a volunteer to really help them to help build it out through the country.
270. 27:11So it's really quite important.

271. Brenda

     27:13Yeah. So a gal that I used to work with, I don't know how many years it's been now, maybe three or going up three years maybe, but her husband took his life.
272. 27:27And at the time, I mean, their kids were...
273. 27:30They had two girls and they were probably...
274. 27:31I think they were like in their early teens.
275. 27:35And I met with the mom and the two girls one time and we just...
276. 27:41To try talking with... Because she just kind of felt like they were...
277. 27:44Because they were shutting down. It's just like they just climbed up like no tomorrow.
278. 27:49And even when I had sat with them to try and even just kind of ask them general questions, they wanted out of here so fast.
279. 28:01It was not even funny, but I felt so bad for them.
280. 28:04And I don't know what she ended up doing to help them.

281. Julie

     28:09So what you're saying, right, it's so important, right?
282. 28:11So they completely disassociated into a free space.
283. 28:16And the question is, is like with the mother, of course, being devastated as well, who is available to support and help the family through something that's so traumatic and and and such...
284. 28:26So painful, really? And COVID, speaking of COVID, I did a lot of work throughout our urban school districts because unfortunately, especially what we saw in Clark County, which is Las Vegas, we had a high level of suicide of young children.
285. 28:42I remember, I believe it was in Clark, was a child who I believe was nine.
286. 28:47And at that time, you're talking about food insecurity, you're talking about actual physical or sexual abuse, different issues that occur because it's safer for some children to be at school than to be at home.
287. 29:01So being forced to be at home created a lot of emotional mental health issues.
288. 29:06So when I was at the Council of Great City Schools, we really worked hard to work with school psychologists across the country to figure out how can we support the children.
289. 29:14So grief literacy, just interesting you asked the question today because I was having this conversation yesterday, and I've been contemplating going...
290. 29:23Talking to my old executive director about, okay, I'm doing this work, and my book is actually...
291. 29:29I'll give you a little buzz today. Like, I thought the title was gonna be Divine Ashes Ascending, but I keep on talking and speaking, and I see as I'm editing the book, I talk about this whole concept of living and dying awake.
292. 29:41Being a conscious guide of living and dying awake.
293. 29:44And it goes back to what you and I were talking about in the beginning.
294. 29:47It's that death is really a sacred doorway to living if you choose it.
295. 29:51And so it's really sacred in how we take that first breath and our last breath, and it's really our choice in how we make the choices after dealing with these type of traumas.
296. 30:04So it's incredibly important work.

297. Brenda

     30:08Yeah. So why do you feel that so many people struggle talking about...
298. 30:14I wholeheartedly agree with you, but why they struggle on talking about grief and knowing how to support someone grieving?

299. Julie

     30:21Oh my God, it's because people are uncomfortable.
300. 30:25People don't want to think about like, oh my God, I'm going to die?
301. 30:28Like really? Like I'm going to die? Of course, we're all going to die.

302. Brenda

     30:31None of us are going to get away from that.

303. Julie

     30:34Right. And so the thing that's so interesting is like, I find it, as I've been doing this writing, so interesting.
304. 30:40We make such a deal about birthdays. That is our sacred first breath.
305. 30:48We, as a country, at least in the West, we honor the birthdays, like and everybody we know, happy birthday.
306. 30:54The death anniversary of someone, sometimes people do know.
307. 30:58I definitely know people that I love and care about, the anniversaries of the people that they love and when they died and how they honor them.
308. 31:05I happen to be Jewish and we say Yorzeits and we light candles.
309. 31:08We actually really recognize the day which somebody dies.
310. 31:13A lot... It's just interesting. But I think in our culture, really honestly, Brenda, there's just so much fear.
311. 31:19There's fear and anxiety around it and such discomfort.
312. 31:23And so that's death itself. And then when it comes to grief is that people somehow...
313. 31:28I don't know what the reason is that people think that somehow they're going to fix it.
314. 31:32They're going to solve. They're gonna make...
315. 31:34Bring, you know, automatically bring joy to somebody's life.
316. 31:37But I think the difference is is just for your listeners to know, like hearing you, hearing I, all of the people that you have had on your podcast, is really to be be present.
317. 31:47Be present with the people that you love and ask, what can I do to help you?
318. 31:51Can I run to the grocery store? Is there anything small that you may need that I can just make your day just a little easier?
319. 31:59Or we talked about, unfortunately, when somebody is dying, going with someone to take notes or to record the conversation or just to be able to ask questions later, it really is amazing how important support we're able to be for others.
320. 32:17Honestly, like I shared to you, I said a cousin just died last night.
321. 32:21This is a young cousin. I believe she was 67 with just a random aneurysm.
322. 32:29I called her husband today. I did not know if he was going to answer the phone, but I know that I do this work and that I am saying, I am here for you.
323. 32:38And however you want to process, integrate, in shock right now, But please know that I'm here.
324. 32:45People just don't make those phone calls because they think somehow they're imposing or they're a burden or otherwise.
325. 32:50And we don't know unless we ask.

326. Brenda

     32:53Yeah. I know I got in conversation with a couple of people sometimes about the support system and all that, and then I had made the comment about like, if you tell somebody that's grieving like, Oh, I'm here for you and all that, I'm like, If you're gonna say that you're gonna be there for them, actually be there for them.
327. 33:13Don't just say it because you think it sounds good because I've had people like that and it was like, if you're not gonna actually be there for me, then just don't say that to me.

328. Julie

     33:23Well, you know what? The worst part about it is, this is other hard conversation, is I'm sure you've had it, I had it.
329. 33:30How many people disappear from your life when your spouse died?
330. 33:33People just fall away. They can't deal with it or they're in couples or...
331. 33:38I don't know what or why, but it is a real issue that how many people really...
332. 33:42Because they can't have the conversation because they are so uncomfortable.
333. 33:45Oh my god. I'm like, I'm the one that lost my spouse.
334. 33:47But people are so uncomfortable that they literally, there's a sense of creating distance.
335. 33:54It's very real.

336. Brenda

     33:55Yeah, I actually had a friend of quite...
337. 33:59I mean, were friends many, many, many years ago for quite a long time.
338. 34:02I was in the store and I was walking towards a checkout and her and her husband had walked past me and she saw me, she looked, she did a double take, kept walking, and her husband stopped like, aren't you gonna go and say hi to her?
339. 34:21And she just bolted away from me and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.
340. 34:27And I mean, even if it, you know, to take like, you know, a lousy two minutes and come over and just, you know, give me a quick hug or say hi or something.
341. 34:35Even if it was just saying like, hi, would love to chat, but I'm like, I'm on a...
342. 34:38I gotta get going for another appointment or whatever it was.
343. 34:41It was just I

344. Julie

     34:43always wanna say this to you. It wasn't about you.
345. 34:46Right? Like, that's the real thing that people have to understand.
346. 34:49I want your listeners that have lost people to understand it's not about you.
347. 34:53It's because she was so uncomfortable. Like like, think about it.
348. 34:56I think there's almost like a subconscious thing that if I talk to you, my husband's gonna die.

349. Brenda

     35:00Yes.

350. Julie

     35:01No. I'm being serious. I know. I know. Really think they think it's like...
351. 35:04It's almost like it's contagious. And it's really...
352. 35:07I mean, I think a lot of it is subconscious.
353. 35:10I really do. I don't think it's intentional.
354. 35:12I think people are that deeply uncomfortable around that.

355. Brenda

     35:15Yeah, yeah. Don't know that we're ever, as a society, I don't know that we're ever gonna get comfortable with it, but I mean, I know I'm constantly kind of talking about it.
356. 35:26It's like, none of us are going to get away from it.
357. 35:29We're all going to experience it at some point in our lives and multiple times within our lives.
358. 35:34So it's like, why can we just not make this a little bit more normal?

359. Julie

     35:38Well, I mean, it's really, I I'm really, for me, it's really a sole purpose and it's really where...
360. 35:43Like, to lose... Leave a, you know, very large legal career, to move into a place of being a transformational soul coach, supporting people in grief, and then working as a death doula and writing a book and speaking.
361. 35:55Everything I'm doing is to elevate this really as a vibration of consciousness, not just nationally, but globally, and working with other people that really have the same goal.
362. 36:07And we really are looking to figuring out how can we disrupt how we deal with death throughout the world.
363. 36:14And so really making it a movement to live and die awake.
364. 36:18And for me, I really believe is knowing that we're going to die, how are we going to choose to live fully today?
365. 36:27And that's making really intentional choices, not for tomorrow, not for a week from now, but simply today.

366. Brenda

     36:37Mean, I know after I lost my husband, I mean, look at things so different than before.
367. 36:44So I want to go there before, so we don't run out of time, I want to touch on this part, is about how you connecting with your husband.

368. Julie

     36:52Oh, sure, sure. So it's interesting. Jim was seeing the numbers thirty three and three thirty three for several years before he died.
369. 37:03Now, is interesting because we were talking about your mom and your mom knowing, and I never really thought about it that way.
370. 37:09But he was seeing it probably for about three years.
371. 37:13And even... Like, my youngest son who was a freshman playing varsity soccer at a public high school in Pennsylvania, and he got the number 33 for his jersey.
372. 37:22I have all of these pictures of Jim pointing to three thirty three on buildings, on his watch.
373. 37:28So this is something that our entire family was aware of, just know he wasn't sick, but he knew he was seeing these numbers.
374. 37:34And so we as a family, his brother, my kids, all of us, we would send pictures back and forth at 03:33.
375. 37:41So we continuously... This just was a practice.
376. 37:46Didn't know what or why. Now understand, I'm the woo woo one.
377. 37:48He always teases me from outside. He's like, this is supposed to be you, not me.
378. 37:53I cannot believe... I mean, I've worked with some mediums that are really amazing and literally laughing and crying.
379. 37:59He's like, how did this happen? So going back to Jim, we're at MD Anderson, and my dear friend is with me.
380. 38:05And at this point, they've told us that really that there's nothing they can do.
381. 38:10They treat him, he'll die of an infection, or he can go home to our children.
382. 38:14So she's working on an Angel Medevac, and they're having a conversation.
383. 38:18And I am just face planted into the bed just beside myself and feeling just so ill.
384. 38:25And he says to my dear friend, he says, how will I connect?
385. 38:29And she says, you know how you're gonna connect.
386. 38:31You're gonna connect through these numbers.
387. 38:34They literally had a conversation that we were a part of.
388. 38:38My husband, when the time came that he was dying, the hospice nurse at 03:23 said he's taking his last breath.
389. 38:47I said, No, He'll die at 03:33. He died at 03:33PM, and he guides me.
390. 38:55I mean, it's chills. Right? But, like Mhmm.
391. 38:57Where I live, it wasn't 03:33, but, like, on the entryway, when I came to look at the property, it said 333.
392. 39:04Ten, fifteen minutes later, I was up in the property and on the microwave, it said 333.
393. 39:10He continuously affirms my decision making through the numbers, and so they show up in different ways.
394. 39:18It's really, I mean, it's really magical, but I'm really grateful.
395. 39:22And he also does a lot with electronics.
396. 39:24So he's done a lot. You know? I can't...
397. 39:27I say not as much lately, but actually I had something happen today.
398. 39:29So, we'll have TVs turn on and off. We'll have, you know, different songs shift on the radio.
399. 39:37I... Right after he died, I had a wedding song.
400. 39:39My phone was not on. It was sitting on the bed.
401. 39:41Nobody was touching it, and wedding song came playing out of the phone.
402. 39:48Even as recently... Right? Okay. This is kind of

403. Brenda

     39:50funny because they're talking about

404. Julie

     39:51my book, but I was so attached because I had this experience around hearing him.
405. 39:56I'll get clear audience messages. And it was like a point in time that he was talking about his ashes and I was going kayaking with a dear friend.
406. 40:05I had this whole message, and I was really connected to my title being, like, kind of, like, him dying, but me living and really releasing my legal work and going into this space of transformation.
407. 40:19Right? Mhmm. But I was just at this retreat.
408. 40:22I work with this woman. Her name is Sarah Cannell, and it's this thought leader academy.
409. 40:26And there's all these women authors, and we had this amazing mastermind this past week.
410. 40:30And it was really about letting go of the name and really embracing, listening to the idea of living and dying awake.
411. 40:39And I left there on Thursday afternoon. That was, like, kinda, like, the end of, like, the more formal part of the retreat.
412. 40:46And I haven't told anybody this, but the...
413. 40:49All of the electronics on my dashboard were were completely down.
414. 40:52Now he's done this before with my partner that I'm dating.
415. 40:55And, like, several years ago, we first started dating.
416. 40:57He did it, and, like, he... We just laughed because it it eventually turned back on.
417. 41:02But we knew it was Jim because I... Anyhow, that's a whole another story.
418. 41:06But just today today... So this was from Thursday afternoon, my whole dashboard, my car down.
419. 41:13Just... Had the speed limit. I had the mileage.
420. 41:15I had my gas. That's it. Everything. My navigation.
421. 41:17I was coming from Fort Lauderdale home. Nothing.
422. 41:21So, anyhow, I'm telling you, this thing is not working.
423. 41:25It is... Today is today is Tuesday. So we're several days later.
424. 41:29I take it to be serviced this morning. The gentleman goes out.
425. 41:33He turns the car on, it's working. Now listen.
426. 41:38I'm I'm No. I'm very educated. I'm very bright.
427. 41:41Anybody can turn their car on and off. It has not been working for five days.
428. 41:47Wow. And so on the way there, I got this funny, like, sensor thing, like, said...
429. 41:51This thing came on and said, oh, something...
430. 41:54Your sensor or something with your environmental, whatever, whatever.
431. 41:56Like, it's something environmental. I'm like, what what is this?
432. 41:58It was, like, weird message I'd never seen before.
433. 42:01Didn't think anything of it, and I could not believe that that was working today.
434. 42:06Like, this man's gonna think I'm crazy. And I'm like, okay.
435. 42:10Jim, again, he was just affirming that it was the right decision to really listen to my inner voice and to make a change of my title.
436. 42:18Go figure.

437. Brenda

     42:19Oh my gosh.

438. Julie

     42:21Okay. But that was today. So when I say to you, like, he literally...
439. 42:25I never know when, and he always shows up.
440. 42:30And it's beautiful. It really is. It's such a...
441. 42:33You know, I know that he's with me. And I I and I do have different Claire's, and I hear messages, and we talk back and forth.
442. 42:39And... But I want your listeners to know, it's really important to know that you really are able to connect and that we all have our intuition capacity.
443. 42:47And it's really, it is something that you can totally, completely, tap into.
444. 42:55And, I mean, even if we just... As a skill set, can talk about just for one second, like automatic writing, if you've ever shared that with your listeners, you know, where you just write for fifteen minutes and and allow it to flow through you rather than your mind.
445. 43:08So that's like the morning pages. Julia, I guess, artist...
446. 43:12What's the title of her book? Julia Cameron, I think, is her name.
447. 43:15Am I saying that right? The Artist's Way, I believe.
448. 43:18And she wrote and kind of created the idea of the morning pages.
449. 43:21But if you write for fifteen minutes every morning and just allow it to flow through you, you will really connect with your heart and your intuition.
450. 43:31We all have different abilities within ourselves.

451. Brenda

     43:36Because my husband, he's actually my morning dove.

452. Julie

     43:40Oh, I love.

453. Brenda

     43:42Yeah. It took me a few times to kind of put the...
454. 43:46To piece two and two together, but any time shortly after he passed, mean, few weeks after he passed, morning dove was appearing out on our patio.
455. 43:58Mind you, there was no food out there for the thing to eat.
456. 44:02And it was just the morning dove, no other birds.
457. 44:06It appeared a couple of times. I'm like, what the heck?
458. 44:08And I'm like, why is it? I don't have any food out there.
459. 44:10I'm like, sorry, I'm not feeding you. Then one time, I think like the third time, I'm kind of like, what the heck?
460. 44:17Then I'm thinking back about it, you know, at that point in time, anytime that Morning Dev appeared, something significant was going on where I had to make like some really big decision.

461. Julie

     44:28Oh, how interesting.

462. Brenda

     44:30And I didn't know what to do because I have his ashes, I have his picture and all that.
463. 44:35I'm talking to him and I'm like, Help me out here.
464. 44:37And I'm like, I don't know what to do. Should I do this?
465. 44:40Should I do that? Anytime something big was happening or going on, that mourning dove always, always appeared.
466. 44:47Never failed. Never failed. It was at the house that we built on the day that I moved.
467. 44:54It was here when I moved, and actually the mourning dove is the reason why I'm living in the house that I am in today.

468. Julie

     45:01Okay, so you're with me, you understand that I'm guiding you to where you're living and you know what, it's the best decision I ever made.
469. 45:07It's like a sanctuary and I healed so much where I am, right?

470. Brenda

     45:12Yeah, because when I came to look at this house, because I mean, we lived out in the country, I'm used to like seven acres of land, and I had a hard time trying to go into the city with not even a half an acre.
471. 45:24And my realtor was kinda like, Go out and check this yard out.
472. 45:27He's like, It's a really beautiful yard.
473. 45:28It's on 2.3 acres. He's like, If you like it, I was like, I'll talk to the lady because her dad lived here and he had passed away.
474. 45:36Maybe she'd be willing to let you look at it before I put it on the market.
475. 45:39I'm like, Okay. Came and looked at the yard, fell in love with the yard.
476. 45:43And I'm like, I said, if she'll let me, I said, I would love to see the inside of it.
477. 45:46Because I love the yard so much, I came into looking at the house with a completely different thought process.
478. 45:52He had showed me some old pictures, which I'm kind of like, I'm like, okay.
479. 45:56But I'm like, it can all be redone. But thankfully, when I got in here, they had done some updates to make it look a little bit more modern.
480. 46:04So that definitely was a huge, huge help.
481. 46:07And so going through the house, I had a good feeling about it.
482. 46:11I mean, the walls were really dark. I'm like, that could be repainted, not a big deal.
483. 46:15And so in my kitchen area, we have patio doors looking out into the beautiful backyard and this nice wooden deck and everything.
484. 46:24So get done and everything, and I'm looking out the back window and all through the patio door.
485. 46:30And I had said to myself, if I see a mourning dove when I go to look at this house, I'm like, that is my sign.
486. 46:36This is my next home. So we're standing there with my realtor looking outside and all of sudden my eyes kind of gaze down.
487. 46:42Like, I'm like, is that a morning dove right there?
488. 46:48And he's like, yeah. And I started balling.
489. 46:51I started just crying. And I had told my realtor the Morning Doves story.
490. 46:56He's like, oh shit, the morning's up.

491. Julie

     47:01I'm like, they figured, you know, gonna have a sale.
492. 47:04It's a good thing.

493. Brenda

     47:06And then he, you know, he puts out and he's like, I'm so sorry.
494. 47:08I'm like, no, no. I'm like, there's nothing to be sorry about.
495. 47:10Like I said, that was my sign. I said, I don't have to go home and think about this.

496. Julie

     47:15But you know, I think it's something really interesting for people to listen to.
497. 47:18Like, there's something really beautiful.
498. 47:20They want to connect with us. They want to guide us, and you just have to listen.
499. 47:24And it'll come through whether it's numerology, whether it's through, you know, whether it's the morning dove, a butterfly, whatever it is, you'll know and to really trust yourself and to listen because you will hear the messages.
500. 47:36Why is it that your husband showed up when you had made your decisions?
501. 47:39Because you had the questions. You were asking him for help.
502. 47:42Right? So we ask and they will show up.

503. Brenda

     47:47And I remember our first anniversary without him, I was just kind of being pulled to go out to the place where him and I would always go out and have dinner.
504. 47:58I'm like, even if I just go out there and maybe sit at the bar, like have a drink or whatever, and I just feel like I'm being pulled to do this.
505. 48:05So I did, felt super uncomfortable, but I'm sitting there, but thankfully, I mean, knew enough of the people that worked there, so it wasn't that helped, obviously.
506. 48:15I'm sitting there looking out at the... Because it's out of lake, I'm looking at the lake and everything, and all of sudden our wedding song starts playing.
507. 48:26And it makes me choke up even just thinking about it.
508. 48:30And I'm like, I'm like, like, deep breath, deep breath.
509. 48:33Okay. I'm like, okay. I'm trying to keep her cap together.
510. 48:36And then the one the one bartender, she's she'd asked how I was doing it.
511. 48:40And I'm kinda like, she's like are you okay?
512. 48:42And I'm like I'm like our wedding song just played and she's like oh she's like he was just letting you know that he's here with you and then then I really lost it.

513. Julie

     48:53It's amazing though, isn't it? It is like the warmest embrace from the other side.
514. 49:04What a huge embrace. Like you said, you felt pulling.
515. 49:07He wanted you to be there and he wanted to share it with you even in a different way.
516. 49:13God, that gives me chills and I love it.
517. 49:16That's a beautiful story.

518. Brenda

     49:17Yeah. And I know one other time I had did like five minutes, I was down on my lower level working out.
519. 49:24I laid down on the floor and I did like five minutes of breath work.
520. 49:27And normally the five minutes I don't get...
521. 49:30I mean, it feels good and everything, but I don't get too much of any type of spiritual connection or anything.
522. 49:36This one time I did, halfway through it, halfway through like five, it was only five minutes, but halfway through it, also I just got this overwhelming feeling and I started crying.
523. 49:46And it was like the best way that I could describe it was like, I was laying there and I got this spiritual hug.
524. 49:52And it was that spiritual hug that just made me cry.
525. 49:56And then, so I got myself together and I'm getting ready for work and all that.
526. 49:59And then I'm in one dresser. I have our wedding picture, our engagement picture, and then I have a little angel holding a mourning dove in front of our wedding picture and a couple other things.
527. 50:10As I'm in the closet, I'm looking at what I'm gonna wear and everything, and also I glance over and hear the angel is turned completely around looking at our wedding picture.
528. 50:22I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean, because I have two cats, so I'm immediately thinking it's the cats, but there was nothing else, nothing else on that dresser that was touched.
529. 50:38And that angel was faced completely around looking at her wedding picture.

530. Julie

     50:43I just think, right? It's just so important, Brenda, just a reminder to everyone to pay attention, really to look, pay attention within and otherwise.
531. 50:52And also what came through with you talking about the breath work, which I'm sure you talk about the somatics all the time, but the healing modalities are so important to do that energy work for healing.
532. 51:01I would not be here without the healing work, it's something we really haven't talked about.
533. 51:06But when you talk about ease versus dis ease, the only way I believe that we really get to that is really through doing that somatic work and whatever that is for you, whether that's Reiki, whether that's yoga, whether that's breath work, whatever you feel called to, I really believe that's a real important part of the process.

534. Brenda

     51:27Was there something specific or were there multiple things that helped you through this?

535. Julie

     51:31There are many things, and I've been very attuned to doing them.
536. 51:37So there was a period of time in which I was during COVID, my doctor's daughter, she was a professional ballerina, but she also trained in New York City ballet.
537. 51:47And she and I did yoga outside, and I would just cry.
538. 51:51It would be raining, I would just be in heart opening positions, and the tears would just flow.
539. 51:57Or I worked with somebody here in Sarasota, it's mind body medicine, she is a cranial sacral, but also just a healing touch where she really connects with the energy of the body.
540. 52:10We released a lot of my grief through work and then there was a lot of tears.
541. 52:15I've done acupuncture. I've done a ton of breath work.
542. 52:21I spent a lot of time in Sedona. I got my training as a transformational soul coach through Sedona Soul Adventures, and I really was able to work...
543. 52:29There's some really amazing healers out there that really work somatically with your body.
544. 52:34So, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with healing hands and some some people that are just much, much more advanced with somatic work.
545. 52:42So, yeah, you know, people... I'm happy also to share any of that with anyone, but that work, I...
546. 52:48It's been very intentional. We just were even out in Sedona a few weeks ago and did more work.
547. 52:53So I'm always... I've been very intentional and I think a large reason why I, you know, kind of who I am and where I am today is because of that healing work.

548. Brenda

     53:02Yeah, yeah. So did you carry, With how much your life has shifted and the work that you're into now, did you have any moments where...
549. 53:15That you were happy about the work that you're doing, that any guilt that came along with it?

550. Julie

     53:19Guilt and related to what? Related to my spouse or related to what?
551. 53:24Related to the work

552. Brenda

     53:25that you're doing now and feeling good about the work that you're doing now.

553. Julie

     53:28I think that the only thing that I would say is like, remember as on...
554. 53:32You know, because I say I really honor, like, death anniversaries.
555. 53:35And it was, that one anniversary in which, you know, I I felt drawn, you know, to Jim and, kinda just had, like, a symbolic ceremony regarding that evening before.
556. 53:46And the next morning, I was releasing kinda on, like, a LinkedIn just sharing that I was creating this business, Rising Phoenix Life, and that I was a transformational soul coach.
557. 53:55And in that moment, I mean, Brenda, I was like, I I was like, I'm gonna whisper this because it's like, how is it that I'm going from this national education lawyer, you know, working on amicus briefs to the US Supreme Court to pivoting to being a transformational soul coach and then a death doula?
558. 54:10So, yes, I think a lot of times I've had, like, those questions or those reflections of, like, what would Jim really think about what I'm doing?
559. 54:20You know? And then there was some point in time where I just so stepped through the doorway, and it's become part of my soul, my spirit, and it's just who I am.
560. 54:29And I feel very called in service to help others.
561. 54:34And so it's really where... I remember, like, talking about Jim, but one of my first podcasts is a dear friend.
562. 54:40She has a podcast called What's Your Story?
563. 54:42She's a very close friend, and she lives here.
564. 54:44And at thirty three minutes after the hour, the Wi Fi got cut.
565. 54:49So I had to get my hotspot on and go through my phone.
566. 54:53And they do a live recording. For whatever reason, she doesn't edit anything, so it was all live.
567. 54:58She and her father actually do this podcast.
568. 55:01And so they're having this whole conversation, and I pop back in.
569. 55:05And she's like, oh, Julie, it was so interesting.
570. 55:07It was thirty three minutes after the hour exactly when you got cut.
571. 55:11And I started laughing. And she's like, what's going on?
572. 55:14And I said, my husband is... It's like a coming out party.
573. 55:18He's telling me, Julie, you need to talk about this connection because it's real.
574. 55:24And part of your job on this other side is to talk about this connection.
575. 55:28And I was like, oh my God, my first podcast?
576. 55:30I really have to talk about this? And yeah, he made sure I did.
577. 55:36He was laughing all the Always laughing.
578. 55:38I mean, he comes through very funny. And so that's it.
579. 55:42He will play jokes in some ways on me. Yeah, he's like, You're not going be silent about this whether you want to be or not.
580. 55:49That's not happening. I guess I embody it.
581. 55:54I own it.

582. Brenda

     55:55Yeah. I just love the conversations. I'm just hearing people that have the stories of when their connection with their loved ones.
583. 56:02I just love that.

584. Julie

     56:05Yeah. It's... Listen. My kids even are very aware.
585. 56:10They're now 24 and 26, but they're very, very clear.
586. 56:16You cannot make sometimes the things that come through, to be really honest.
587. 56:20Quite miraculous. I think I even am still surprised sometimes, but you know what?
588. 56:28At some point you're just like, okay. And I say, thank you.

589. Brenda

     56:33Julie, this has been such a good conversation.
590. 56:35There's so much more I would love to talk to about.
591. 56:38You know what? I think I should have you back when you are at the point of releasing your book.
592. 56:43How's that sound?

593. Julie

     56:43Sure. It'd be my pleasure. It'd be my pleasure.
594. 56:45The book will be out. We're working with the publisher now.
595. 56:48I'm doing my final edits to go to my editor, and she's quite amazing.
596. 56:53If anybody needs an editor, I'm happy to share.
597. 56:57It's Mary Dissonance, is her name, is the press, and her name is Donna.
598. 57:00But anyhow, yeah, absolutely. Be honored to come back and share the book and really answer questions regarding the content and share.

599. Brenda

     57:09Awesome. I would love that. I would absolutely love that.
600. 57:12It'd be my pleasure. Do like to... Well, first of all, where can people connect with you, find you on social?

601. Julie

     57:17So absolutely. Transformational Soul Coaching, I have an Instagram.
602. 57:22Julie@risingphoenix.life is my email. I'm telling you right now, anybody can email me.
603. 57:28I'll respond to you. Right now, I believe I just have five spots that are open for my coaching, but it's really an important part of giving back one to one.
604. 57:36And, LinkedIn, Julie Wright Halbert. I also have a substack that I love doing that is is live awake, l I v awake.
605. 57:45And it's so much fun writing real content and really sharing, and I'm I'm just starting to do that more and more, and I'm gonna continue to grow.
606. 57:53So Substack, LinkedIn, Julie Wright Halbert.
607. 57:56Oh, I do have a website. Hello. Risingphoenix.life as well.
608. 58:00So that's my website where you can get the book portal.
609. 58:03There's a meditation on there. There's an opening for the book that people are welcome to utilize.
610. 58:09So definitely sign up to get the book and get more information as well as the meditation if they like.

611. Brenda

     58:14Awesome. And I'll be sure to put all the links into the show notes so that way everybody has easy access to them.
612. 58:19Thank you. So I do like to end with a question for my guests.
613. 58:22So if you were going for a walk out in a park, say, and somebody happened to come walking towards you and they were drawn to your energy and they came walking up and asked you, what is one thing I could do today to start living a more radiant life?
614. 58:35How would you answer that question?

615. Julie

     58:39The way I would answer that question would be to look the person in their eyes, to hear them, see them, and share with them that by being present with one another is what we should do every day in every moment, and that's...
616. 58:57Would make their life more radiant. And that's the bottom line because, I meet people all the time.
617. 59:03And you know what, Brenda? We're really not strangers.
618. 59:05We're souls that are living in these bodies, and we show up in different places.
619. 59:11I'm very aware of that. I think it's really important to see each other.
620. 59:16And that really brings that sunshine, that living.
621. 59:19When I talk about living fully through grief, that's the living.
622. 59:23That's living and dying awake. That's truly...
623. 59:26You know, as I answer the question to you, that's what I'm writing about.
624. 59:29It is living fully by being awake and being present with just compassion and kindness.
625. 59:35So it's, in that... In looking and seeing the soul, not what they're wearing, not the external, not the car, not the home, not the job.
626. 59:45I I say all the time that, you know, we come into this world with love and we leave with love.
627. 59:50We don't leave with the clothing. We don't leave with any material items.
628. 59:55We don't. And when I'm with people at the end of life, I truly in a meditative space, all you feel is love.
629. 1:00:02And so, that's the message is be present and given love.
630. 1:00:08Yeah, I love that. Julie, such a good conversation.
631. 1:00:13I knew this was going be good. Knew it

632. Brenda

     1:00:15was going So I'm very much looking forward to having you back for your book launch, and then we'll carry on more about the conversation.
633. 1:00:23But everybody, please go follow Julie for all the beautiful work that she's doing and stay tuned for part two because there will be one coming up somewhere down the road here.
634. 1:00:31And we hope you enjoyed this episode and let us know what you thought of us.
635. 1:00:35Leave us a message in our DMs. Can they leave you a DM if they want to Absolutely, it'd be my pleasure.
636. 1:00:40Okay, perfect. Everybody, thank you so much for listening and from my heart to yours, until next time.

637. Julie

     1:00:46Thank you so much, Brenda.

638. Brenda

     1:00:50Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying my podcast, I would love it if you'd follow, leave a five star review, or subscribe.
639. 1:00:57And definitely please share with anyone that you think would enjoy my podcast.
640. 1:01:01And I would love to connect with you. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and all the links are in the show notes.
641. 1:01:08And if you'd like to be in my podcast or if you have any questions for me or if you have a topic that you'd like me to talk about, please send me a direct message.
642. 1:01:16I enjoy connecting with my followers. Thank you so much for listening.

Machine transcribed, so names, some words and who is speaking may be off. Tap a line to listen from there. Julie on Heartache, Health, and Healing, with Brenda Mundt. Also on Apple Podcasts.