Ep. 85, Awakening Through Grief

1. Lauren

   0:08Welcome to my morning routine for all things grief, growth, and gratitude.
2. 0:14I'm your host, Lauren Samay, a life coach with deep rooted care for those facing loss and transition, which is pretty much everyone all of the time.
3. 0:24I'm here to support you through life's many ups and downs.
4. 0:28We can't escape them. So let's embrace and explore the little things that soothe our hearts.
5. 0:55If you're seeking a simple, meaningful way to open your heart to healing, I made you a ten minute meditation for grief.
6. 1:06It's the perfect tool to support you when grief feels heavy.
7. 1:10Discover connection, peace, and healing within yourself even in the midst of a busy day.
8. 1:17Link in show notes or through laurensammeh.com.
9. 1:25I am so grateful to be here doing this with you.
10. 1:31Your attention, messages, shares, ratings, and reviews inspire me to continue creating for you.
11. 1:43I intentionally keep these episodes ad free, as tempting as it may be.
12. 1:49So if you are called to, you can now help support the podcast through buymeacoffee.com/mymorningroutinepodcast.
13. 2:00Your contribution allows the reflection, healing, and transformation contained within these episodes to reach more hearts, and it means so much to me.
14. 2:13Link's in the show notes. Now to the episode.
15. 2:20Today on My Mourning Routine, we have Julie Wright Halbert.
16. 2:26Julie is a death doula, end of life educator, and leading national voice for grief literacy.
17. 2:33Her work is grounded in decades of public service and shaped by the sudden loss of her husband.
18. 2:40After his death, her work shifted from institutional advocacy to accompanying individuals and families through end of life transitions and early grief.
19. 2:51Formerly a legislative council and national education attorney, she brings systems level insight to the deeply human experiences of dying, bridging ethics, presence, and practical guidance around living, dying, death, and bereavement to hospice systems.
20. 3:10She speaks and writes on death literacy, ethical presence, identity after loss, and what it means to live and die awake, consciously choosing intention and meaning in each moment.
21. 3:24Julie is also the founder of Rising Phoenix Life and author of the forthcoming book, Divine Ashes Ascending.
22. 3:32She has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, NPR, Education Week, and the 74.
23. 3:40Julie, thank you so much for being here today.

24. Julie

    3:44Oh, thank you, Lauren. I'm so excited to be with you and your audience.

25. Lauren

    3:48Oh, thank you. Well, I would love to jump in with my favorite question.
26. 3:52Sure. How has grief shaped you, Julie?

27. Julie

    3:57So we should start off really small, Lauren, right?
28. 4:01Grief has shaped me significantly. I am not the same person today as a result of grief.
29. 4:08My life is transformed in every which way and shaped in so many different ways because of grief.
30. 4:15Really... Until we are going through it and we have it with us, I don't think it's even possible to know the depth of how much it can reshape us.
31. 4:26So I would say to you, my identity has been completely transformed since the death of my husband, and it's really been a significant awakening for me.

32. Lauren

    4:37Can you tell me more about what has stirred and what this awakening is?

33. Julie

    4:43Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's important for everyone to, you know, we all go through deep pain.
34. 4:50My husband literally died within three weeks from cholangiocarcinoma which is bile duct cancer.
35. 4:58Very, very limited opportunity for diagnosis prior to his death or treatment.
36. 5:04We eventually, within a week we were at MD Anderson and we actually knew there was bile duct cancer and he was medevaced home and literally died within a week.
37. 5:14Wow. So, I would say, what is grief, right?
38. 5:20In that time period, of us are in deep, sometimes trauma, stress, PTSD.
39. 5:30You're just surviving. When things are happening around you, the most important thing I could do is to help him from a medical perspective.
40. 5:36I wasn't thinking about anything. I was experiencing deep caregiving and love.
41. 5:45I often reflect on that time period of seven years this past December 6 and it's dismantling of the soul.
42. 5:53So, would say to you at that point in time, my soul was completely broken open.
43. 5:58The grief was raw and it was painful. And so I believe one of the chapters in my book is that we must, it's the beauty through the pain and there's different ebbs and flowing of that beauty and that pain.
44. 6:17And it's being with the grief as we live, which is what I really teach.
45. 6:22It's like, how do we live in the grief and also live?
46. 6:27Just like the title of your podcast, grief and happiness.
47. 6:31What is the connection, the bridge between the two?
48. 6:35And I also talk about dying. So it's all threaded through every piece of that.
49. 6:41That is a fabric of our living, of ourselves, of our souls.
50. 6:45And so, yes, grief, I say all the time, the time before he died and even the day after, You know, my identity has been completely reshaped through that, and I'm ever flowing and changing as a result.
51. 7:01Yes.

52. Lauren

    7:04Ever flowing and ever changing. Can you talk to me about how loss didn't just change your life, but how it clarified your purpose?
53. 7:19And can you talk about the pivot that was never chosen and how this uninvited change becomes a teacher when resistance gives way to that presence?

54. Julie

    7:29Okay, first off is the most beautiful question because I believe grief and death or whatever pains, you know, whatever that we're transitioning through are truly the most sacred teachers that we may have So for a that's really a sacred lesson, but yes, absolutely.
55. 7:45I'll take you through my pivot. It was significant.
56. 7:47And one of the things that I was, as I was meditating before coming with you today was coming through the whole idea of leaping, right?
57. 7:54For your audience, for everybody to listen and to know and to trust in the universe and to know that there are moments in times in our lives that we must leap when we can't see where we're going.
58. 8:03So for me, was an attorney with a national nonprofit called the Council of Great City Schools, representing 78 urban school districts doing K-twelve education law.
59. 8:18And I was deeply committed and passionate about urban education and serving our urban cities and our communities.
60. 8:26And that was what I did at the time. I was present living in that space as a mom, as a wife, and also a lawyer helping to shape education policy for our country.
61. 8:38And so, I was passionate and purposeful, but then Jim's death really awoken me.
62. 8:46I was in that pain, which I talk about that.
63. 8:50Talk about, Lauren, we go into this dissension of our grief and we must go in that process.
64. 8:56So I talk about in my book literally like the pounding, smelling his sweatshirt, pounding on the ground, just the tears, just the raw emotion.
65. 9:07Then actually going through a process of healing, making choices.
66. 9:12I say to everybody listening, we have the power and the capacity to be present and to make a choice of how we're going to live.
67. 9:20So I have to make choices. As I went through it, part of that was through the process of yoga during COVID with a beautiful soul who guided me into the sunsets and sunrises and through rain showers.
68. 9:36And that was a releasing. And I've done a lot of work, I'm not sure if you're familiar with, but like Healing Touch.
69. 9:43Some people familiar with Reiki. But the woman that I work with in Sarasota is the most gifted guide and she literally has worked for me.
70. 9:51It's been seven years and it's releasing the grief that is inside my tissues within my body.
71. 9:57And then there's an acupuncture person who does Chinese acupuncture, again, for me to be in touch and embodied with myself.
72. 10:07I've done a lot of work in Sedona. So I have just continued, as I talk to you, ebbing and flowing, is like what shows up and what do I experience and how do I continue to allow my intuition to guide me.
73. 10:21So that's a huge part of the process. But getting to answer your question of the pivot.
74. 10:28So the pivot took me in this space, I've always been intuitive and I was actually with Tina Powers at Miraval for an intuition workshop.
75. 10:38And then I worked with another intuition coach through Sedona Soul Adventures and that led me to transformational soul coaching certification class, which is so important because when you ask about pivoting, sometimes we have chronic illness, people go through divorce, loss of a job, loss of income, loss of financial or home security.
76. 11:03So many things happen that are lost that lead us through grief and what we call our physical lives.
77. 11:10And so I continued to work through those processes.
78. 11:15Each time, when I was coaching through this transformational soul coaching program, I met with all of these beautiful women and we just really guided each other through our own processes.
79. 11:27And that allowed me to kind of touch and to become what I call there's the dissension, then there's the witnessing and awareness of the grief, and then there's the awakening.
80. 11:36So each one of these educational processes, right?
81. 11:39I call it the living grace method, but it's really going through these processes began my awakening to that pivot.
82. 11:47But I had to be willing to speak my voice.
83. 11:51I had to be willing to share with the world and say, listen, yes, I've been this lawyer, but I am transforming myself.
84. 11:58I am transmuting through this pain to become something else.
85. 12:04I didn't need to know what that was. But that's the leaping.
86. 12:08That's literally going from this critical analytical thinking lawyer into my right brain and my heart led space and my intuition to release what we think that we must know, we must do.
87. 12:22When you let go of all of that doing and to stepping into your being, that's where the pivot happens.
88. 12:29And my pivot is not going to look like yours or any one individual or soul listening.
89. 12:34Because we don't know. We have to trust.
90. 12:37And that's really the greatest gift I can give to anyone listening is to take the leap to trust in the Divine, trust in whatever you know to be your soul guidance, the Creator, Spirit, Universe, whatever that is for you, but to trust and to know that we don't have to have the answers that this Western world thinks we have to have.
91. 13:00It doesn't exist like that. So my pivot happened within that space of deeply trusting the universe.

92. Lauren

    13:09So beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, it's my truth.
93. 13:14Thank you for sharing.

94. Julie

    13:15Yeah, it's my absolute truth, right? I hold it in my heart.
95. 13:19And so we heal as we directly touch our grief.
96. 13:24We directly come into witnessing and awareness of that pain.
97. 13:29And that's where we awaken.

98. Lauren

    13:31100%. Amen. Hundredly agree with that.

99. Julie

    13:35Yeah. And you get that, right? That's the allowance that you talked about.
100. 13:39I'm sure you had that with your mom. That's like when we stop resisting and we say, okay, I say these words as hine ni, means here I am.
101. 13:49But like literally here I am in soul essence presence and showing up for what I'm being given and to allow it, truly allow it to be our teacher rather than a pain point.
102. 14:02A punishment, right? Of like, to resisting it in a different way.

103. Lauren

     14:07Yes. Yes. It is in my grief that I have found the deepest love for self, for others, for those who are no longer present physically.
104. 14:17It's it's a portal if you let it be.

105. Julie

     14:20Right. What you're saying, Lauren, is the true miracle of life and death.
106. 14:26I talk about being a conscious guide of living and dying awake.
107. 14:30And in my book, I talk all in this space.
108. 14:33But what you just said is so important, is what you found through your grief was love.
109. 14:39And I believe our greatest pain and the greatest grief comes from loving.
110. 14:48And also, as we transition and leave this world, as I sit sometimes with those, I can't really call people strangers because they're not.
111. 15:00There's a connection through souls because sometimes people are not speaking.
112. 15:03Obviously the end of life when you come in is a death doula.
113. 15:05But what I have found in deep meditation, what is the alignment between birth and death and everything in between?
114. 15:13It's love. And that's all we have. We come in with love.
115. 15:18Your mother brought you into this world with love.
116. 15:20You've left with a deep love for her, and that love, I'm sure, is with you every single day.
117. 15:25Yes. Right? It's the one thing that continues always.

118. Lauren

     15:29Yes. Yes. A 100% yes. And so often, I mean daily, I reflect on that, that our essence is omnipresent, our love, our light is omnipresent.
119. 15:42We're not here on this earth just to gather a bunch of crap over our lifetimes that we can't take with us, like there's more meaning to it than that acquisition physically, right?
120. 15:50And so just remembering that and leading with that love every day is such a gift of expansion, exploration, and learning in this lifetime.

121. Julie

     16:04Yes, yes, and yes. I couldn't agree more.
122. 16:07And so, we take absolutely nothing with us.
123. 16:10I think it's almost, it's humorous in some way that in this physical world, the things that so much of us value, you can't take any of it So with what can you actually share with those that we love and what continues?
124. 16:25And I connect with my husband still today on the other side, connect with others.
125. 16:29And in that spirit world, our energy continues.
126. 16:33We continue, we have that continued connection, but what is the link?
127. 16:39It really is all through love. And what came to mind for me when you were sharing, which I kind of was sitting with before I started today and it's kind of like in meditation come through was a Hponopono, right?
128. 16:52The Hawaiian forgiveness prayer. And so how is it that we're present in life, right?
129. 16:57In my book I write about the vows of presence but I really think I can take my clients and take your listeners through Hiponopono.
130. 17:05Right? I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
131. 17:13I love you. And so that's like it's for self and it's for others.
132. 17:20And so, like you talked about that self love.
133. 17:23So first coming to ourselves and really bringing the deepest knowing of being grateful for being present, having the moment of the sacred breath, to forgive ourselves for whatever mistakes that we've made, that we claim to be, even though I believe there are no mistakes, they're all part of our journey.
134. 17:42And to come with gratitude. And I think that we apply that to ourselves, we apply that to those that have died, have transitioned, and we apply that to others.
135. 17:54And I think that's the guidance, Lauren, is like coming to the space where we live so awake that when the time and the moment comes to transition, we can meet it in celebration because we don't have regrets, because we don't carry resentments, because if there are things that we feel that we need to share, we say them.
136. 18:19Express them. Last night, my partner and I were watching something in which a woman had lost her husband, but her dearest friend was there for her at that moment of the deepest grief, the deepest pain, which I can completely relate to.
137. 18:33And I'm sure you can, And I'm sure your listeners can.
138. 18:36So, when you're in it, part of the lessons too is like, I talk about this as well.
139. 18:42It's like, who is your soul tribe? Who is your soul family?
140. 18:48We talk about at the end of life being a circle of support, but who do you surround yourself with?
141. 18:53And it's like really trusting in the essence of being with those souls that love you unconditionally, love you in your deepest pain, and that will sit with you and be still and simply listen when there's nothing to be said.

142. Lauren

     19:14Ground crew. Our ground crew.

143. Julie

     19:18I love that term. That's a great term. Is that what you say?
144. 19:21Ground crew?

145. Lauren

     19:22Mhmm. All the spirits that surround us, whether that's humans, whether that's pets that come into our lives, whether that's the stranger that has a message for us at the grocery store.
146. 19:33You know, it's just ground crew. Those that we are in relationship with because our whole lives are relationship.
147. 19:41And that's one thing I also think about pretty much daily because, you know, I'm a bit of an introvert.
148. 19:47Could easily just say I could live in the woods by myself for the rest of my life and be fine, but also like, what would I be doing?
149. 19:52I can't be isolated because we are not meant to be in isolation.
150. 19:55We think back to the creation of the universe and there was this expansive moment when all of the elements came together.
151. 20:03And it's just been this constant dance of edges and community of all capacities, of particles, of people, of souls, and of all the things.
152. 20:11And so we are meant to be together in relationship, to learn together, to support each other, to grow with and through love with and because of each other, and you cannot do that in isolation.
153. 20:22And to think that we are isolated in any capacity in this lifetime is just a bunch of nonsense and illusion.
154. 20:27Right? Because it is that constant state of being connected to truth, to love, to remembering, to remembering that and why we're here and deepening all of the connections because of that, through that.

155. Julie

     20:44Right. Well, you're talking about our collective consciousness, right?
156. 20:47That is the collective consciousness. And what's so beautiful, Lauren, right?
157. 20:50You and I are two souls, have come together today and we are completely in this moment and being present.
158. 20:58And as you talk about the ground crew, whether that's a pet, a beloved soul of a dog, an animal that loves you, being in nature with nature, it's all part of it.
159. 21:09It's all part our experience. And so, the lessons that I really try to guide my clients and others is that every time that we take a step into that space, we never know who's going to come into our consciousness today.
160. 21:25At the gas station, at the grocery store, you and I together, everyone that's listening.
161. 21:31It's truly the greatest blessing that we've been given that we can be in the sacred space of awareness, of being in the now and really, no matter what's happening in our lives, to remember that state of consciousness.

162. Lauren

     21:51The divine game of connecting the dots.

163. Julie

     21:55Exactly. Exactly. And it's taking a moment, people, you know, away from the phones, away from other things.
164. 22:03But, you know, I've noticed like, recently I was going in for an ultrasound for something.
165. 22:07There was a young woman who I saw and witnessed.
166. 22:13And it's okay to share. Nobody knows. Right?
167. 22:16But I could tell that she was going through a lot of fear.
168. 22:19And it turned out that she was battling and getting over cancer while being pregnant and finding her way forward.
169. 22:28It's natural in our physical beings to have fear.
170. 22:32But when somebody could see you and just share love, it shifts everything.
171. 22:40Absolutely. And we never know those moments show up.
172. 22:44They're gifts. They're guidance.

173. Lauren

     22:45Yes. There's so much fear in pain and pain and fear, especially around grief and death.
174. 22:54And this podcast is about all things grief, growth, and gratitude.
175. 23:00Julie, tell me more about your experience from grief to gratitude and finding the beauty through the pain and how honoring that loss can lead to having more meaning in your life, more presence and deeper connection?

176. Julie

     23:17Absolutely. Glad to. I think it's a really important question, right?
177. 23:22I thought, you know, I think what you're saying is recognizing the transition from grief to gratitude, from grief to joy, like how do we move to that point?
178. 23:33And one thing you know I would say is that every individual experiences it a little bit differently because it's your own personal journey.
179. 23:40So I think we have to bring grace and compassion to know that the grief does ebb and flow.
180. 23:46A lot of times in meditation people talk about it like the ocean where the water crashes and it's with you and then it's calm again and grief does not go like that.
181. 23:56But I think in the initial years, there was definitely a lot of pain.
182. 24:00And for me and I share this and I think it's a great metaphor for anybody listening is I have these wall of photos and they're all different time periods, milestones, my children's lives, my wedding with my husband, all kinds of beautiful moments.
183. 24:16But early in my grief, I would wake up and I would sob and I would cry.
184. 24:21And then there was a shifting and I think I encourage people to do this with a photo of their own, of somebody they've loved and lost, or even somebody who's alive who you're alienated from and there's a disconnect, but to be able to look back at a memory.
185. 24:37And all of a sudden, Lauren, one morning I woke up and I looked at this picture of us in Belize in a cave, and we have the lamp lights on our heads, I'm with my children, the four of us are together.
186. 24:48It was just a beautiful memory. And there were some funny things.
187. 24:50I kind of got stuck a little bit and just laughter.
188. 24:53And I could hear the laughter and I could really come back to a memory that was quite beautiful.
189. 25:01And so that was the shift for me. So, when I was able to come to my memories to a place that I was not the victim, I was not in sorrow, but instead I had tremendous gratitude for the life I was given with the four of us and with our dog and just that family unit in those moments of time.
190. 25:24We think there is no past, there is no future, and there's only now.
191. 25:30I say that again. There is no past, there is no future, there's only now.
192. 25:34It's like Eckhart Tolle, the power of presence.
193. 25:38And so, when we can go back to those memories and see that they can live with us in a different way and bring to them gratitude and joy, then the energy, the actual energy inside our being shifts.
194. 25:54And that is where we meet the gratitude.
195. 25:57That is where we meet the joy. And now I can look back and we laugh, and my kids and I will share jokes.
196. 26:06My husband shows up and does funny things.
197. 26:09So, we had a very dry sense of humor in life and definitely comes through that way.
198. 26:18He catches me off guard. One of my first podcasts, Lauren, I connect with him through numerology, and he affirms guidance with us.
199. 26:30And initially I was like, I'm a lawyer, transformational soul coach.
200. 26:36You're talking about this pivot to a death doula.
201. 26:38So, the first podcast, literally all the electronics, everything cut at thirty three minutes after the hour.
202. 26:45And I got back on. It was a live show, actually.
203. 26:48It happened to be two people with myself, and they continued discussing.
204. 26:52And the first thing that the host, Jaime's dear friend, says, Oh my God, it was thirty three minutes after the hour.
205. 26:58She had no idea of the connection. And when I laughed, I said Jim was like, Out of me to the world!
206. 27:03He's like, Julie, speak. Speak. Tell your truth.
207. 27:06Tell everyone it's real and it exists, and it's a blessing.
208. 27:10And it gives me such affirmation in the present.

209. Lauren

     27:13Chills. Chills. Beautiful. Yeah. You've mentioned a few times about this aspect of your life, being a death doula.
210. 27:24For the death doula curious, what does a death doula actually do?

211. Julie

     27:31One, I did my certification actually together with my mom, if you can imagine, Going With Grace.
212. 27:38So a woman who is a beautiful death doula, her name is Aylua Arthur.
213. 27:43And I think one thing that I've learned the most, I volunteer with Empath Tidewell Hospice in Sarasota, Florida.
214. 27:50That's my base at home. So, for me, it's a growing process.
215. 27:53I've sat vigil for many years. I've been with loved ones at the end of life, and it's something that I've wanted to bring myself to, to give a gift to others, to really find peace at the end of life because it really is possible.
216. 28:09But a death doula can really show up in a lot of different ways.
217. 28:12You and I can engage with a death doula today.
218. 28:16Anybody can. Lauren, spiritually, where do you want to be at the end of life if you had the choice?
219. 28:23Who would be your circle of support? Who would be the people that you would want perhaps to surround yourself with?
220. 28:30Is there anything you'd want to hear? Is there anything that you'd want to smell?
221. 28:36Any experience that would be there's nothing that is right.
222. 28:40There's nothing that is wrong. But what a death doula will do can help you create whatever it is that you imagine for yourself or for your loved ones.
223. 28:49Also, doulas sometimes like I am a lawyer in the state of Florida.
224. 28:53And I don't do this now. I would send people to an estate or lawyer.
225. 28:59But as far as doing a DNR or advanced directives, that's also part of what a death doula may do.
226. 29:04And some death doulas help at the end of life after somebody's died.
227. 29:08So, different people make different choices on how they want to provide their services.
228. 29:13For me, it's really being in presence with one as a transition or being a support way ahead of time to really talk spiritually as a transformational soul coach about what is it that's important to your soul and for what you see while you're alive.
229. 29:29Right? So a lot of my work, what I call my business Rising Phoenix Life is bringing life to the living while honoring the end of life.

230. Lauren

     29:38So beautiful. At what point in your journey were you called to add being a death doula to your toolkit?

231. Julie

     29:47So it's not that long ago. It was a year ago, September 25, that mom and I had gone to Greenville, South Carolina, that I had been working through for years.
232. 30:00I sat vigil through hospice at the end of life and I wanted to add additional skill sets.
233. 30:07So prior to that, I actually had done like another vigil training through the Jewish community, it's learning additional prayers, learning different things that people may have wanted in that space.
234. 30:19So, it's kind of like a scaffolding. I kept on adding and adding.
235. 30:24The death doula, Alula brings the end of life to very diverse communities.
236. 30:30She recognizes it's really important as far as access to all people of all backgrounds to have access to really honor their end of life.
237. 30:40She comes to it in a beautiful way. And so my mom and I both have been working with hospice.
238. 30:45My mother does grief therapy with young children through a program called Blue Butterfly for almost like a group therapy for children that have lost parents, grandparents or siblings.
239. 30:56And it was something that I was drawn to during COVID.
240. 30:59My kids didn't have anything like that. So, it's really about the living and continuing.
241. 31:04It's the grief. It's exactly what you're talking about.
242. 31:06It's like bringing the grief and happiness to young children so that they see peers that are experiencing the same thing and they are able to bring a voice to their grief.
243. 31:16And that's really important for you to talk about happiness and grief.
244. 31:20It's through art projects, through song, through so many different avenues that there's connection.
245. 31:27And in that connection, they find their way back to life.
246. 31:31Right? So there's not one thread. All of these different threads lead back.
247. 31:38So the death doula was just an added component that I see it as a way to really honor life.

248. Lauren

     31:45I love that. It is so important.

249. Julie

     31:49Yeah. I think it's the core of our existence, really, is being in that moment, being in that presence.
250. 31:58I write something called the Presence Vowels in my book, but it's really like, and I think I've heard you mention this in a different podcast of yours, talking about not being in resistance, but being in allowing.
251. 32:12Right? And it's like when we make a choice to allow ourselves to be versus resisting and pushing away or denying, it allows us to meet our day to day life with what I call meaningful intention.
252. 32:27And it also means that if something were to happen to us...
253. 32:30I say to your listeners, this is a tough one.
254. 32:32I'll say, if something were to happen today, tomorrow, or in a week, how are you living your life?
255. 32:38What are you postponing right now that you would do differently?
256. 32:43And ask yourself that question and really sit with that.
257. 32:47What am I postponing? What conversation do I need to have?
258. 32:51What is it that I might need to tell a spouse, a partner, my children?
259. 32:56How is it that you perhaps do you want a green burial?
260. 32:59Do you want to be cremated? I know these are tough conversations, but also maybe it's just an expression of love.
261. 33:06Who is it that you've lost touch with that you think of And you think, Oh, maybe I'll reach out to them later.
262. 33:13I have a dear friend who's a beloved friend from college who just died in his sleep on a ski vacation over a month ago.
263. 33:23I had reached out to him the evening before, hours before, not spoken to him four and a half years to tell him happy birthday.
264. 33:29Wow. That was intuitive. There was energetic intuition connection.
265. 33:34I believe we, our souls, know within thirty days that we are coming to transition.
266. 33:41And we don't always understand what that is, but you're experiencing and you're going through it.
267. 33:46And for some reason I had an energetic guidance to make that connection.
268. 33:53But you know what I thought was so interesting?
269. 33:55Here we're saying happy birthday and somebody's about to die.
270. 33:58Now just think about that. We honor our births and we make such a to do about birthdays, yet we don't honor the end of life the same way.
271. 34:09People fear. You talked about that fear again.
272. 34:12Right? So, people bring the fear to that moment rather than the beauty.
273. 34:18And if we find a way to bring the beauty to how we live every single day in our every single moment, then when that moment comes, I think we can release it without resistance and with more.
274. 34:31My husband It's a beautiful sharing. My father-in-law as well when he was dying.
275. 34:37But my husband said to me, he said, Honey, I am being held in the hands of God, and I'm at peace.
276. 34:45Okay? My husband's religion, I would say, was one of kindness.
277. 34:51There's no religion. It was really how we treat each other, our souls, and teaching our children that any interaction with anyone is to bring a deep love and deep respect and deep kindness.
278. 35:08That part of it was just such an important lesson for his legacy.
279. 35:13So if we can bring that to every day, how we show up to each other, that's really the lesson.

280. Lauren

     35:20Yes. So beautiful.

281. Julie

     35:27You know, it doesn't have to be in these final moments.
282. 35:31It's having this awareness while we are living.
283. 35:35And it's okay. There's nothing wrong with the pain.
284. 35:38I say to you, we should be grateful if we have the grief because if we have the grief, that means exactly what you've said with me, Lauren, that we've loved.
285. 35:47And if we love, then we have the honor and the blessing of experiencing the grief and moving through it and allowing it to be with us as it comes and as it goes.
286. 35:59And there's no exact way to experience it.

287. Lauren

     36:02Yes.

288. Julie

     36:07You know, we can't tell anyone how to experience or agree.

289. Lauren

     36:11No, we can't. It's an individual journey.
290. 36:17There is no right nor wrong way, ultimately.

291. Julie

     36:21No, not at all. But I would ask you, right?
292. 36:23Like, just if I may, if you're willing, you know?
293. 36:26But, like, what comes through for your mom every day?
294. 36:28Like, what do you live? How do you carry your mom?

295. Lauren

     36:30My mother lives in the sunshine these days.
296. 36:35You know, I've said this before and I feel like it's still true that for the longest time we were in different states.
297. 36:41She was up in Pennsylvania, my home stomping ground, and I'm down in Virginia.
298. 36:46And now it's been just over ten years since she transitioned into the light and it's like she's still living in another state.
299. 36:54We're still talking. We still have signs that love is still present.
300. 36:59All of the connection that we had while she was here physically present remains in my heart.
301. 37:04And having been through that moment of death, literally, I was with her as she had her last breath on this earth, that sacred moment, I'm just so grateful.
302. 37:18I carry that presence with me every day.
303. 37:23Of my mortality. Of this existence on earth.
304. 37:27Of the importance of love. That we are loved.
305. 37:32That really, that's all there is, is love.
306. 37:35And so she's with me in the sunshine. She's with me in little moments.
307. 37:39There are all sorts of signs that come through other people, messages, dreams.
308. 37:46I'm very, very much in communication with her.
309. 37:49And I feel like in some ways, now that she's not bound by physical space in the body, she's with me all the time.
310. 37:57Like, our relationship has deepened in ways that I would have never expected.
311. 38:02That I didn't think was possible. After she died, I had a mentor who has now passed on himself, John Caricella.
312. 38:11He was a beautiful teacher in high school for me.
313. 38:15And he was there standing in the back of the church after my mother's funeral.
314. 38:18And I said to him, you know, I was so close with her.
315. 38:21We talked on the phone every day and it crushed me that I didn't have her to share this life with anymore.
316. 38:30And he said, You know Lauren, I talk to my mom every day over breakfast with my coffee.
317. 38:36So matter of fact. And I don't know at that point how long his mother had been dead but he's like, You can still talk to her.
318. 38:45What are you talking about? Just because she's not here physically, that doesn't mean that your relationship stops.
319. 38:51And it was in that moment that I had this extra permission slip to talk with her still.
320. 38:59Seriously, okay, yes. We are spirit. We are love.
321. 39:02We are light. Of course this relationship can continue.
322. 39:06So my mother is with me in my days and my work and how I've been shaped by her loss, which I didn't feel like I could get through.
323. 39:18The grief. The pain of losing someone that's so dear to you, as you know.
324. 39:25It's an ache that never leaves. But that hole, that loss doesn't change.
325. 39:31But our expansion of self and awareness, if we choose to face grief, to learn from grief, to grow with grief, through that gratitude, through transformational alchemical process of pain and loss, to absolute deeper knowing of love and ourselves and our loved ones.
326. 39:49Like, that's every day. That's in my work.
327. 39:53That's in the work I do now that has shaped me to want to normalize grief, to embrace grief, to support others through those moments where our society wants to say, Turn it off.
328. 40:03Don't address it. Don't feel it. Don't look at it.
329. 40:06You know, we're these immortal beings that don't age.
330. 40:09But if we tap into our essence and return to that, it's knowing.
331. 40:14It's my knowing that all of my dear ones, my spirit team, my ancestors, they're all with me every day, every moment.
332. 40:22And it's in remembering that, that I continue to live and live more fully while I'm here.

333. Julie

     40:33Could not have said it any better. No, really, it's true.
334. 40:40That's the complete beauty of the fact that we're given the sacred breath to be alive and it's how we honor them in being alive.
335. 40:49Right? So, your mom is honored every day through your breath and your connection to her, and she is with you in that.
336. 40:57And I do think it's really important for your listeners to know that, yes, it is very possible to connect with your loved ones.
337. 41:04And just as you're sharing and I'm sharing, we both do.
338. 41:08And it is the greatest gift to know that we are these eternal essence and beings that extend way beyond our physical bodies.
339. 41:18And when you are blessed, and I mean blessed, to witness the end of life, it is really a blessing because your mother became that light.
340. 41:28She now wraps herself around you in that light.
341. 41:31And as your listeners can't see, but I can see the beautiful sunshine coming through behind you and all around you.
342. 41:39How intended is that? She's with us. They're with us.
343. 41:45And I think normalizing that it's the truth and that they want others to know to be seen and they don't have to hide their grief.
344. 41:56They don't have to pretend that the physical is just the end.
345. 42:00And we get to bring this to the world. You and I right now are sharing and raising the consciousness of every individual, every soul listening that they could connect with their own light.
346. 42:14I say the light within and the light without, but it's a divine extension of self.
347. 42:19And it's so beautiful what you shared. And I just hope just however many souls hear this conversation and that it resonates with them, that they feel safe, that they're loved and are surrounded by love, and that, you know what, another chapter in my book, and I believe it, you're never alone.
348. 42:38We're never alone. And that's such... You could be as much of an introvert as you want, but you're never alone.

349. Lauren

     42:49Right? Yes. Yes. Well, talking about Ascension and your book, your forthcoming book, Divine Ashes Ascending, the Journey of Living and Dying with Grace.
350. 43:04Tell me about what sparked this creation in your soul to come through your fingers into this book.
351. 43:09What is the book about? When is it coming out?

352. Julie

     43:12Okay, I'd love because you're the first person to ask me, it goes to your spiritual awareness of like, where did the book come through?
353. 43:19So I actually was meeting with a medium, Tina Powers in Tucson, Arizona in 'twenty two.
354. 43:25And really, I could feel the transition from leaving my work as a lawyer and questioning what was my sole purpose?
355. 43:33Where was I going? And she's like, I can see you writing a book about letting go.
356. 43:38So that was the beginning. And then I kept on following my path of opening and expansion and learning and what was my sole purpose.
357. 43:46And then I can't believe I'm going share this, but why not?
358. 43:50So one day my beloved girlfriend was visiting me.
359. 43:54We celebrating. She said our 100 birthday because we both were 55.
360. 44:00Not today, but that was then. Her birthday is literally one day after Jim died.
361. 44:07So she is one of my closest, closest tribal members and was visiting me, literally came to celebrate her birthday, left her family to be with me.
362. 44:17And we also were honoring his death, celebrating all of us, all spiritual, all of us.
363. 44:23And I heard from him this whole thing regarding ashes.
364. 44:28And so there was a place we used to go in the water and symbolically did this ceremony around him and honoring the timing of his passing.
365. 44:41And I connect a lot to the death anniversary.
366. 44:44I'm very comfortable with it. For me, that moment of his release he died at 03:33, he connects with me at 333.
367. 44:52For me, it's much more than the birthday.
368. 44:54So, it was the evening of that. And I actually have this picture.
369. 44:59You'll have to look at my book to see it, but it's like a matrix, like a shifting of the energy.
370. 45:03Like the beach is all the same, and then that area shifts in the universe.
371. 45:08And so that became the birth of Divine Ashes Ascending because for me it was symbolically his ashes ascending, me ascending into my awakening.
372. 45:16And really going back to that question about the book.
373. 45:20So it's the journey of him dying and me living.
374. 45:22And so it takes you through the memoirs, a little bit of my story, and then a meditation, and then what I call reflection pauses.
375. 45:32So the book is for the reader. It's a transformational healing arc through grief and loss, and it's intended for each individual to be able to experience the book however it shows up.
376. 45:42You don't have to read it from beginning to end.
377. 45:44There's a space in there about death doulas.
378. 45:46There's information in there about dying with agency.
379. 45:50There's stuff in relation my relationship with my husband as my soulmate.
380. 45:56There's all kinds of beautiful teachings and tools, and it's all intended to really just be a guide, a journey.
381. 46:04I love that. Yeah, it came through me. It was not like something I woke up one day and I'm I'm writing.
382. 46:12It was really channeled through me. Jim has been a guide.
383. 46:17He's with me in this process, and I believe that it's my sole purpose to help people rise from their grief.
384. 46:23Beautiful.

385. Lauren

     46:24I feel it.

386. Julie

     46:27So, I have taken that leap and left my world of working Amica's race to the US Supreme Court to working with people in their hearts to touch life.

387. Lauren

     46:38I love that so much. So when is this book coming out?
388. 46:42Yes, it's going

389. Julie

     46:43be in October. It's coming October 2026, so it will be soon.
390. 46:48People can go to my website, which is risingphoenix.life.
391. 46:52Go to my LinkedIn, Julie Wright Halbert, or just email me at julierisingphoenix.
392. 46:58Life, and you can sign up also for free meditation, which is really a lot of what you and I are talking about.
393. 47:04It is about the becoming. It is about the rising.
394. 47:08It is about the awakening and allowing yourself to go within.
395. 47:12That's really where it all happens. It's giving ourselves permission to put our hands over our hearts, to feel that energy and that essence, and to go within and to be in the pause and feel sacred in that space of just being.
396. 47:34And then coming back, know, the book serves with these reflection pauses to journal, to reflect.
397. 47:42And just like you said, there's no right way to grieve.
398. 47:45There's no right way to go through my book.
399. 47:47I've never said that before, but that's the truth.
400. 47:48There's no right way. And so, you may enter it in any way that is comfortable for the reader.
401. 47:56You're guided by meditations, you may be guided through my voice.
402. 48:00You are, you can go straight to the reflection pauses.
403. 48:03You can move to different chapters. There's so many different pieces.
404. 48:10The chapter as far as the beauty through the pain, if you're in deep grief and you want to share my pain to see how I came to the beauty, it's all there.

405. Lauren

     48:18Can't wait to read it. Thank you.

406. Julie

     48:22Excited to share it with the world. Really am.
407. 48:24And it's funny to write all these legal briefs and help write laws.
408. 48:28And my expertise is around special education and to do that for decades.
409. 48:33And then this space to talk about literally living and dying and how do we meet our loss in a beautiful way?

410. Lauren

     48:40It's an incredible question.

411. Julie

     48:46You talk about a pivot.

412. Lauren

     48:47Totally. It's

413. Julie

     48:47a bit of a pivot. Yes. And I say also to your listeners, listen and be willing to take that leap.
414. 48:56Be willing to walk into your own transmutation, to your own spiritual transformation.
415. 49:02Just like you said, Lauren, there's no right way to experience grief.
416. 49:07There's no fixing it. And it's only through listening to our divine selves may we guide ourselves to meet with those, our beloveds and ourselves to walk through it truly.
417. 49:21Right?

418. Lauren

     49:22Amen. Yes. Julie, is there anything else about your heart's work in your life right now that you'd like to share?

419. Julie

     49:33I think what's really important is that what I do with my clients and as you and I are talking, is to urge everyone to listen.
420. 49:42Do not have fear, but to walk forward, walk through your doorway, to know that your grief is teacher of life and that it truly is a gift.
421. 49:53And that when we can embrace that, that is when we can come back to living a life of gratitude and joy.
422. 50:00And I want everyone to know that it's absolutely possible.
423. 50:05And just like you talked about yourself meeting with your beloved mentor, the day your mom, you buried your mother, you know, it's stepping into that space and knowing anything is possible.

424. Lauren

     50:17Thank you, Julie.

425. Julie

     50:20You're very welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Lauren.

426. Lauren

     50:23It's such a gift.

427. Julie

     50:25Right? Me too.

428. Lauren

     50:29Well, did you bring a joke to share a little extra joy?

429. Julie

     50:33I saw that and I had to think about it. And I laughed because I'm like, I am not the comedian, but...
430. 50:40I was like, Okay, this is not really a joke, but it'll take us in the space of grief to find laughter and love and all of it.
431. 50:46Right? Jim was in the hospital and initially we didn't know if it was infection or cancer.
432. 50:51So, that part is very serious. But blood cells were going down and we thought maybe it was an infection.
433. 50:59And we had this moment of like, Oh, my gosh, we were really hopeful.
434. 51:03And I know this doesn't sound funny, but it is reality here.
435. 51:06So, he loved pizza. And, oh, my gosh, he needed to have pizza and needed to have pizza then.
436. 51:12We went down to the cafeteria and got the nastiest pizza that you can imagine.
437. 51:16And I have this addition of my husband sitting in the hospital bed with his nasty piece of pizza with the hugest smile on his face, and he was so happy.
438. 51:26So I say to you, you know, was thinking, I'm like, what could I possibly bring?
439. 51:29I think the lesson is that no matter what the grief is, there's always laughter.
440. 51:34There's always joy. Say, get up and dance.
441. 51:38Listen to music. Hear if your favorite is Bob Dylan.
442. 51:41Whatever it is, embrace it. Embrace it. Because while you're alive, you are living and you can embrace the most beautiful of every moment.
443. 51:53So I was laughing. I don't know why. I saw that yucky old pizza he thought was the best thing that he'd ever tasted and brought him so much joy.
444. 52:00So I guess the bottom line is we can find the joy anywhere.

445. Lauren

     52:03Amen. It's the little thing.

446. Julie

     52:05So maybe it's not a joke, but I was like, It's my humor in the midst of deep grief.

447. Lauren

     52:12Thank you, Julie.

448. Julie

     52:13Thank you.

449. Lauren

     52:14So again, where can folks find you? What's the best way to connect with you online?

450. Julie

     52:20Absolutely. Risingphoenix.life, and that is a possibility.
451. 52:25My LinkedIn. I also have a Substack that I've started writing at Substack at Julie Wright Halbert.
452. 52:31It's called Live Awake. And also, just email me, JulieRisingPhoenix.
453. 52:36Life. That's easy enough to remember. And I definitely give an opening discovery call that's just a gift and always available to talk to anyone to just see if I can help them on their journey or to follow along to sign up for an email to get the portal for the book that's coming forward.

454. Lauren

     52:53Love that. Thank you. It'll all be linked in the show notes.
455. 52:58Great. And again, yes, Julie, thank you so much for sharing your joy, opening your heart and sharing your journey with me, with us all today.
456. 53:09So grateful to have this conversation.

457. Julie

     53:11Me as well, my friend, me as well. And you know, like this is a gift of being here.

458. Lauren

     53:17It is a gift. Thank you.

459. Julie

     53:19Thank you. Have a lovely day.

460. Lauren

     53:21You too. If you are enjoying these episodes, it would mean so much to me if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
461. 53:35I take your comments to heart and would love to read what you share on upcoming episodes.
462. 53:48Coaching is a path of self discovery, self love, transformation, and quality of life that I am deeply honored to support you in embodying.
463. 54:04I work with individuals worldwide facing loss who want to mourn well and use their grief as a catalyst to live better, fuller days.
464. 54:15You can connect with me at laurensamay.com or through Instagram at Lauren.
465. 54:21Samay.

Machine transcribed, so names, some words and who is speaking may be off. Tap a line to listen from there. Julie on My Mourning Routine, with Lauren Samay. Also on Apple Podcasts.