Ep. 133, Living and Dying Awake

1. Victoria

   0:03Hello and welcome. I'm your host, Victoria Bennion and the founder of the Best Podcast Guest Booking Agency.
2. 0:10And you're listening to the Best Guest, the podcast for business owners, creatives, and entrepreneurs who want to harness the power of podcasts to grow their platforms and increase their visibility.
3. 0:22We're here to support you on your journey, bringing you actionable tips with each episode.
4. 0:27Now let's begin. Welcome to the latest episode of the best guest podcast.
5. 0:32In this episode, Natalie Tealdi from our team sits down with our client Julie Wright Halbert who is a death doula, end of life educator, transformational soul coach, author and national advocate for grief literacy.
6. 0:48They talk about grief, presence and what it truly means to live and die awake.

7. Natalie

   0:53Welcome to the podcast, Julie. It's great to have you here.

8. Julie

   0:57Thank you so much, Natalie. I'm pleased to be here with you.

9. Natalie

   1:00Can you start by sharing your journey from being a legislative counsel to becoming a death doula and grief advocate?

10. Julie

    1:07Absolutely. No small question in that at all.
11. 1:11At a very young age, I was very drawn to help children.
12. 1:15And I started when I was at college in the University of Maryland.
13. 1:19I went and worked for Senator Hollings from South Carolina.
14. 1:23And I started working on there was a large piece of legislation called The Nation at Risk, and he was responsible for the democratic response to that piece of law.
15. 1:32So I worked on that and I immediately saw the integration of, I was camp counselor for years and I was involved with helping children hands on in a public school near my college.
16. 1:44And immediately all of my interest in education law came together.
17. 1:47So with that, I went to law school in Miami.
18. 1:50I worked with the school district, which is one of the largest school districts in The United States in Miami.
19. 1:55And it immediately became part of my soul.
20. 1:57I was so driven as a mission to help urban students throughout the nation.
21. 2:02So, I worked for the nonprofit for almost not quite thirty years and working on K-twelve education policy.
22. 2:10So I did that with a very full heart, worked on Supreme Court cases, federal court cases, and working with my colleagues to really craft laws to impact children throughout the nation of The United States.
23. 2:21And really, life happens. This is what my book's about.
24. 2:26This is what I teach. And we all have a journey.
25. 2:29What is your chapter? Where are we in our book and our stories?
26. 2:34And my story took a significant curve. I mean, I met my husband in law school, which was beautiful.
27. 2:39We have two boys that are now young adults with their own startup.
28. 2:44And Jim, unfortunately, at a place in life very young, he was 51, was my husband, and he got cholangiocarcinoma and he literally died in three weeks.
29. 2:55And so starting with my story, there's so much in between in that space, but it really shifted my entire being to wanting to go into a different place of service, to helping.
30. 3:06I was already volunteering. I've done so much work with the end of life, always been bedside with family members, and really very comfortable in the transition space.
31. 3:17So I went this past, in '25, to become a death doula.
32. 3:21And so it's been a whole process of really leaning into living and dying.
33. 3:28And it's really, I'm honored. I cherish where I am.

34. Natalie

    3:31That's lovely. And how do you feel the sudden loss of your husband sort of shaped your views on death and grief?

35. Julie

    3:38Oh, it shaped it tremendously. Now. I have speaking in keynotes and things of that nature.
36. 3:46That shattering is so raw. It really truly dismantles your soul.
37. 3:51Grief feels and is experienced differently with every soul.
38. 3:58And there's no judgment around grief. Children lose parents.
39. 4:01My kids lost their dad young. People lose parents.
40. 4:06It's just so impactful what that experience is for each individual.
41. 4:10Right? So I would say for myself, initially, that raw shattering was really dismantling, trying to level up and support two boys that were 16 and 19 at the time.
42. 4:20One really had a lot of anxiety, the other one had a lot of anger, and I had myself.
43. 4:26I talk about, there's a chapter in my book which I love.
44. 4:29It talks about the tribe that you surround yourself with.
45. 4:32And I think it's really important for anyone grieving.
46. 4:35Who is your circle of support? Who is there to really open and to allow yourself to be honest and vulnerable with?
47. 4:43And I describe my mom in the book as being my heartwood.
48. 4:45She was like the oak that's just the core of a tree.
49. 4:48And she really encircled us along with a lot of very close family and friends.
50. 4:53But that was really something that I would really encourage your listeners to really be open.
51. 4:59And it was one of the biggest things for me, Natalie, was to ask for help and to allow and receive.
52. 5:04That's a huge lesson.

53. Natalie

    5:06Yeah. It can be really hard to ask for help, can't it?

54. Julie

    5:10You know what? As a lawyer, as a left brain, like that critical analytical thinker, I wasn't used to asking.
55. 5:16And all of a sudden, I was in this place of receiving.
56. 5:20And not only did I need to ask, I desperately needed to receive.
57. 5:24So, I had to give very heart open to my children and was very mindful.
58. 5:30But yet I had cousins and my closest girlfriends that were willing to support my children, one in college, one at home, my mother with my youngest son and my older son.
59. 5:41They were just amazing. And my dad. And my sister as well.
60. 5:46You just have to be so open to allow people to step into your private space.

61. Natalie

    5:52Yeah. It's so lovely that you had that support.

62. Julie

    5:55Oh, was and I am really blessed. And I really encourage people to don't shy away.
63. 6:02Grief doesn't just end. Right? It's something that we carry and we learn to move into presence.
64. 6:08And I really talk about what does that mean to live in presence and how does that take us to really a death that we can live without resentment and regrets and to really kind of honor ourselves in our daily lives.
65. 6:21But it takes work and healing and really being mindful of yourself in order to get to that space.

66. Natalie

    6:27Yeah. And it's an area we don't really talk about very much, isn't it?
67. 6:30Like dying and death. And we all know it's going to happen.

68. Julie

    6:34Huge point, right? Especially in our Western society, there's such a tendency to really avoid, push away, of pretend like, okay, somebody dies.
69. 6:46I mean, really, it's a real issue, Natalie, but a lot of times if a parent child loses a parent young, I've heard so many stories, unfortunately, in which the other parent gets remarried and literally like removes pictures, tells...
70. 7:01Speaks to them about not crying, not wanting to talk about the parent that passed.
71. 7:06It's really amazing how repressive our society is towards death, and it's an enormous, enormous problem.
72. 7:14It really is.

73. Natalie

    7:14Yeah. And what does it mean to live and die awake, and how can we cultivate this awareness?

74. Julie

    7:21I would say to you, it's something as a national leading voice to be conscious around living and dying awake.
75. 7:27What does that really mean? And living and dying awake, it means that in every moment of your life that you are truly present.
76. 7:35Right? I'm here with you now. I'm listening to your question.
77. 7:39I want to be reflective to your audience.
78. 7:41What does it mean for them as individuals listening?
79. 7:44How can they show up to their lives? I wake every morning and I think about the presence that I can bring to my life.
80. 7:51And when you're in that space of being present, you're giving love.
81. 7:56You are in a much more peaceful state because you're not in a fight or flight or stressful space.
82. 8:02And then as far as what does that mean to be dying awake?
83. 8:05It means that you've lived every moment with such intention and meaning that when the time comes to die, you really can greet it in a much more peaceful state.
84. 8:15And I really think it's something that we don't have to fear.
85. 8:19It's really more about bringing love to death and to that final sacred breath, just like we do to the birth of a child.
86. 8:26I compare that in my book. I talk about how excited we are about the birth of a baby.
87. 8:32And we hear the child cry for that first time, and we're so elated.
88. 8:38But yet we don't bring that same beauty.
89. 8:41Sometimes we do. Death doulas do, which I am.
90. 8:43And more and more people are stepping into that space to honor being a death doula.
91. 8:48And it's really greeting death with that same beauty.

92. Natalie

    8:51Yeah. That's really lovely.

93. Julie

    8:53Thank you.

94. Natalie

    8:55And how do you feel loss reshapes our identity and our relationships?

95. Julie

    9:00Well, I think the first question is how do we allow loss to reshape our identity?
96. 9:05Right? So I talk a lot about this is like, do we choose to be the victim and the suffering?
97. 9:10Because loss... Listen, we cannot underestimate whether it's a loss of a pet, whether it's in divorce, whether it's abandonment, whatever.
98. 9:20It could be moving from a city that you've been in your whole life.
99. 9:23Loss shows up, and that grief is real for each individual in different ways.
100. 9:29And each one of those pieces reshapes who we are.
101. 9:33And the question is really, I say, is what is the choice on how you're going to show up to that loss and how are you going to process it?
102. 9:42Right? Because we have to process it literally in ourselves and our being, and that's where our healing comes from.
103. 9:49So it's like you meet life when you have serious losses.
104. 9:53I mean, think about the death of a child, which I've never experienced, but I have dear friends that have.
105. 9:57How do you meet that loss and ever find the energy to move forward versus what's the choice of how am I going to embody?
106. 10:05How am I going to connect to this passing and to this death?
107. 10:08How maybe, if I believe in it spiritually, connect with the passing in a way that perhaps if you believe in the soul and how it lives on, every individual has the choice to see how they want to connect to that deep loss.
108. 10:24And it really shows up in so many different ways.
109. 10:27But yes, I think your identity, to answer your question, absolutely changes forever.
110. 10:32And it's all about how you allow it. I will never be the same person that I was the day before Jim died.
111. 10:39My life and who I became makes me actually tearful.
112. 10:43As a parent, we'll never be the same. He is not here as my kids, who are young adults at 23 and 26 today, almost 24, how they face life.
113. 10:54But when they have major challenges, I need to guide them myself.
114. 10:59And Jim is not here as a partner to do So it's like...
115. 11:03Or we hit milestones, whether it's college graduations, weddings that one day may come, grandchildren.
116. 11:09Those are where your heart is really pulled because, yes, your identity shifts.
117. 11:14I have a partner now that's a very important part of my life, but yet I will always just be their mother and their father will always be not in their life.
118. 11:24He guides them as he guides me, but he's passed.
119. 11:26He's died.

120. Natalie

     11:27Can you explain what a death doula does and how this role supports families during end of life transitions?

121. Julie

     11:35It's a phenomenal question, right? And it's something that is continuing to evolve.
122. 11:41And there's different national, international.
123. 11:43I got my certification with a group called Going with Grace, Elua Arthur, who's really very well recognized in this space.
124. 11:51I was so honored to be part of her course because it's a very diverse group of individuals that come to really work and to learn about the end of life.
125. 12:00So what is a death doula? Is learning about perhaps rituals.
126. 12:04It's coming to you or any individual with like, how is it...
127. 12:08Doesn't matter what age you are, but how is it do you wanna meet your end of life?
128. 12:12Like, what is it that you might want to be listening to?
129. 12:15What type of... Whether it's religious, not religious, whether it's music, whether it's being in silence, however you want to honor that space, supporting the circle of support.
130. 12:27So that's all... Does it... Not necessarily...
131. 12:29Not everybody has family. So, you know, who is supporting the family at the end of life, supporting them?
132. 12:35Me being the fact that I'm a lawyer and licensed in the state of Florida, also a lot of people, as well as other death doulas, they make sure they go to somebody that can support them around a DNR, around advanced directives.
133. 12:48It's very important. Like, if you do not want to be resuscitated, that you have that DNR.
134. 12:55And where is it? Because if somebody is there and something happens to somebody and calls 911, they have to do what they're required to do.
135. 13:03So, that has to be visible. It has to be certain colors on certain paper in certain states.
136. 13:08Every state has different laws. So it's really important.
137. 13:12I think the beauty of a death doula is that they can provide all kinds of different services and it can come at any point in someone's life.
138. 13:20It does not have to be we all are going to die, so it doesn't necessarily be.
139. 13:24It's something that's beautiful that I am working on after I went through the certification course to have an end of life folder for my children.
140. 13:33And not only that, I've already had different conversations, and I've had that with my parents.
141. 13:38It's really just like you asked the question about talking about death, it brings a safety and a comfort.
142. 13:45And Ayluis says this, which I love. She talks about leaning forward and also having a strong back.
143. 13:52So you have to have the ability to lean forward to see what a client may need, but also to have a strong back to support them as they need.
144. 14:00And some people, some death doulas even help with rituals after death.
145. 14:05And so there really are enormous amount of options.
146. 14:08And I encourage listeners to explore it and to really ask questions.
147. 14:14And there's so many amazing death doulas that are now really in the world.

148. Natalie

     14:19Yeah, when you were talking, actually, it made me think of like you do a birth plan when you're about to have a baby, and it's very similar, isn't it?

149. Julie

     14:26It really is. And you know what's interesting?
150. 14:29When I was doing the Going With Grace course, there are definitely people that are midwife doulas that also are doing the end of life and becoming a death doula.
151. 14:39So they really are bringing, as I talk about that sacred first breath to the end of life, there are some people that are out there that do both.
152. 14:45So yeah, you're definitely right. It's definitely connected.
153. 14:49Very similar.

154. Natalie

     14:50Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah. And in your experience, what do grieving people need that they rarely receive from others?

155. Julie

     14:57That's a tough question because I think there's so many things that a grieving person doesn't receive.
156. 15:04I think so much of it, my reflection is immediately to listen, not to speak.
157. 15:12We need to listen more to grieving people, let them ask what they need to really be present.
158. 15:19I also think it's really Claire Bidwell Smith is an amazing grief expert in The United States, and she was my therapist early on after Jim died.
159. 15:28And she's somebody that I've been blessed to do a lot of courses with and learn from.
160. 15:33And so much of it is really important is that we don't tell people what their journey should be.
161. 15:39Right? It's not that grieving needs to end at some moment.
162. 15:42It's okay, whatever your grief path is, to allow it, to embrace it, and just to really honor it.
163. 15:50And I think so often people unfortunately want to try to fix a grieving person's journey.
164. 15:57And that's probably one of the biggest things is we need to listen and there's nothing to fix.

165. Natalie

     16:02Yeah. I think you're so right about that.
166. 16:04And how does your forthcoming book, Divine Ashes Ascending, encapsulate your journey and insights on grief?

167. Julie

     16:10The Divine Ashes Ascending is really a journey of the individual.
168. 16:17Right? It's taking the reader through my story, and then there's meditations and exercises that follow.
169. 16:24So as they go to the meditation and exercises, it takes the reader into whatever you want it to be for yourself.
170. 16:31It's a transformational healing journey that I share my personal story, but then you can walk into your own losses, your own shattering, and follow the path and journey for yourself.
171. 16:45So it's really I honor my raw vulnerable truth and I allow it to be a guide for the reader.

172. Natalie

     16:53Sounds really lovely. And that's publishing in the fall, isn't it?

173. Julie

     16:56Correct. Actually, I was just speaking to the publisher yesterday and really looking to honor Jim's birthday, which is October 24.
174. 17:05I'm looking at October of next year. That's where I'm focused.

175. Natalie

     17:08That's lovely.

176. Julie

     17:10It's actually a month. It's our anniversary and his birthday, so I look to honor those times and it's going to be

177. Natalie

     17:16then. That's really special. Can you talk a little bit about stress and disease and ease in the body?

178. Julie

     17:24Absolutely. So it's really an important content, right?
179. 17:27You know how stress impacts all of us. Every single one of us is so impacted by stress.
180. 17:33And in my situation, my husband and I both were under a lot of stress and it really impacted him and his body.
181. 17:40He died extremely quickly. He died within three weeks, if you can imagine.
182. 17:44From the time we left the hospital was November 10 and he died on December 6.
183. 17:49So just right within that time period that we had the idea of knowingness that he had cancer.
184. 17:54And it was only the week before MD Anderson that they told us that it was cholangiocarcinoma.
185. 18:00So yes, the whole idea of being in dis ease when we're not in ease within our bodies, it really talks about this and the body keeps the score.
186. 18:11And that is what leads us to chronic illness and disease.
187. 18:15So I talk a lot to audiences about what does it mean to embody dis ease and to really be in a state of peace and presence.
188. 18:25And for me, rather than being in that fight or flight where the amygdala is activated and being in a state instead of what harmonious heart coherence, that allows us to be in a place of tremendous peace.
189. 18:41And I also would say that's when we move from grief to a place of gratitude, and that allows us to be in a greater state of calmness where it impacts our parasympathetic nervous system and how we show up to our day to day lives.
190. 18:56So you see, like everything that I'm talking about is connected.
191. 18:59And it's amazing, but stress and cortisol and all of that in the state of just living has such an impact on our lives.
192. 19:08And so how we show up to that stress and how we shift to grief has everything to do with our healing journey.

193. Natalie

     19:16Yeah, it's such an important lesson, isn't it?
194. 19:18We all have stress to deal with. The amount of the tools that we can have in our toolbox is just so important to get us through those.

195. Julie

     19:26It's absolutely critical, Natalie. And so in my book, I talk about a lot of different healing modalities, a lot of different resources for the reader.
196. 19:35And it's really important to know that there's so many resources out there to help guide us and we don't have to stay in that state of distress and being in fight or flight.
197. 19:44We really can calm our nervous systems and really shift our energy.

198. Natalie

     19:49Yeah, I'm really looking forward to your book coming out.
199. 19:51I'll definitely give that a read.

200. Julie

     19:53Appreciate that. I look forward to sharing it with you.

201. Natalie

     19:55And where's the best place for people to connect with you?

202. Julie

     19:59Absolutely. Very easy to find me, Julie Wright Halbert on LinkedIn.
203. 20:05I am very actively on LinkedIn, so that's a great place professionally where I connect with clients to coach.
204. 20:11I connect with folks to do keynote speaking and authors, whoever.
205. 20:16And I love working with groups as well. It's really a beautiful opportunity.
206. 20:20I'm also working, which I don't think I shared with you yet, with a group that's called the Great Beyond.
207. 20:25They're two producers and we are really working to kind of bridge the ethics and presence around the end of life between medical, healthcare and people that are really bringing what they call dedication.
208. 20:38And Jason and Barry are two of the producers and they have worked with the Hospice Foundation of America.
209. 20:45So I will share that documentary as well lots of times on LinkedIn, and that is called Butterfly Has Been Released.
210. 20:53And they did a beautiful journey of a nurse, Alison, who was a hospice nurse, the end of her life.
211. 20:59And it's a documentary really bringing people into that space and sharing all of the education and the lessons around the end of life.
212. 21:08So I'm going to be working with them and Empath Health in the state of Florida to really bring that message.
213. 21:14We're working towards the fall and doing some events in the state of Florida.

214. Natalie

     21:18Excellent. That sounds really brilliant.

215. Julie

     21:20Yeah, thank you.

216. Natalie

     21:21And you have a generous gift for our audience.
217. 21:23Would you like to talk about that?

218. Julie

     21:25Yeah, it's an opening meditation for my book, and it's really an opportunity to go within and just to be with yourself and to do the meditation and have a sense of like, what are your own losses?
219. 21:38Where is it that you want to rise in your life?
220. 21:40It's on my website.

221. Natalie

     21:42Oh, that's brilliant. We'll share that in the show notes.
222. 21:44Thank you. And thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us today.
223. 21:48Been It's lovely to talk to you.

224. Julie

     21:50It's my honor to be here with you, so thank you so much.

225. Victoria

     21:53Thank you so much for listening to the Best Guest podcast today.
226. 21:59I'll talk to you again in the next episode.

Machine transcribed, so names, some words and who is speaking may be off. Tap a line to listen from there. Julie on The Best Guest, with Natalie Tealdi. Also on Spotify.