Ep. 278, "He Died 3 Weeks After Diagnosis"

1. Jen

   0:00You know, nobody prepares you for the moment grief shows up in your kitchen.
2. 0:05Yes. The kitchen. Maybe you cooked for someone for years.
3. 0:09You knew their favorites, planned around their schedule, and now you're standing in front of an open fridge and nothing makes sense.
4. 0:16Recipes for four, the empty chair at the table that's staring you in the face, a grocery list that suddenly feels impossible to shrink.
5. 0:25Some nights, cereal is the only thing you can manage, and that's okay.
6. 0:29But some nights, you want something that actually feels like a meal.
7. 0:32And that's exactly why I made the cooking for one after loss widow one eighty cooking workbook.
8. 0:38It's not a big fancy cookbook. It's a 47 page cooking workbook with ridiculously simple recipes, most under six ingredients, sorted by how much energy you actually have that day.
9. 0:51Zero energy? There's a section for that.
10. 0:54A little more in the tank? There's a section for that too.
11. 0:56And when you're finally ready to enjoy cooking again, that's in there as well.
12. 1:00There's also a quiz to help you find your starting point.
13. 1:03Real talk on guilt and overwhelm that shows up around food after loss and practical tools like grocery templates, a meal tracker, tips for eating out alone, and meal delivery options for the nights cooking just isn't happening.
14. 1:18This was built to meet you exactly where you are, whatever kind of night you're having.
15. 1:22Grab your copy at www.widow180.com/cooking.
16. 1:26That's www.widow180.com/cooking. I know this is hard, especially at mealtimes.
17. 1:33Remember, you've got this. Julie, thank you so much for being here today.

18. Julie

    1:43Thank you, Jen. Happy to be with you.

19. Jen

    1:45I'm so excited to have you here. We have a great conversation coming up.
20. 1:50So we're gonna jump right in. You lost your husband suddenly.
21. 1:55Can you just take us back to those first...
22. 1:58The early days, the weeks, and kinda give us your widow story?

23. Julie

    2:03Sure. Absolutely. It was traumatic, and it was quick.
24. 2:09Jim, my husband, we had been married twenty two years.
25. 2:14He suddenly had just what a lot of people with cancer will find is where there's a loss of appetite.
26. 2:21He lost some weight and he was sweating, but that was it.
27. 2:25We had no other symptoms. So the first, you know, several weeks his internist treated him for a like an infection because his white blood cell count was high.
28. 2:37So he literally just thought, okay, something's wrong.
29. 2:41You know, whatever. And he's taking one antibiotic and then this didn't work and had some impact.
30. 2:46Went back. And so the initial part of it was just like typical, like any day.
31. 2:52Right? That any of us get sick and you just go to the doctor and think, okay, things

32. Jen

    2:56are gonna be just fine.

33. Julie

    2:58So that was the very beginning. I was working as a national education attorney at the time.
34. 3:05I had a very large conference the end of October of twenty eighteen in Baltimore, actually that year.
35. 3:11And I remember saying, are you okay? Should I go?
36. 3:14And we had had a met with a hematologist oncologist because the doctor was not able to get his white blood cell counts to go down.
37. 3:22And she's like, well, I think you have to have a bone marrow biopsy because we have to see by any chance this is leukemia.
38. 3:27So it was like, I was really conflicted between going to work and going to this huge meeting.
39. 3:32We have about 1,500 people a year or, you know, staying home.
40. 3:36And so my younger son was home. My brother-in-law was around who was a doctor.
41. 3:41My mother... My family. So he was like, Julie, you gotta go work.
42. 3:44You know? And far as we know, this is just an infection of some kind.
43. 3:49Jim was worried we were supposed to go to a brunch and he's like, honey, I don't know what I have.
44. 3:53I don't know if this is a virus, an infection.
45. 3:55He's like, but how can I go to celebrate your mom's birthday?
46. 3:58I don't wanna take any chance of impacting the baby.
47. 4:01The newborn, the pregnant, my sister-in-law was pregnant.
48. 4:05So he didn't go and I came home that night and this is just very vivid that I said to him, said, something is just wrong.
49. 4:13You just intuitively know that this is not getting better.
50. 4:17The doctor's not giving us answers. He did have that bone marrow biopsy.
51. 4:21It was negative. And you think, oh, we're gonna celebrate, like, you know, no leukemia.
52. 4:25But then that doctor thought, well, maybe something like an MS or something, an autoimmune disease, something rheumatological.
53. 4:34We literally, it's kind of crazy how everything went down.
54. 4:39But then the next morning, we went to Tampa General because we're in Sarasota and everything unfolded like that.
55. 4:45He actually just died December 6. His diagnosis of, we didn't even know what type of cancer, it's called cancer of an unknown primary was on November 10 when they released us from the hospital.
56. 4:58We were able to get him into MD Anderson right after Thanksgiving.
57. 5:02We went to MD Anderson on a Monday, met with the head of all GI.
58. 5:09And she basically said to Jim, which I share in my book, Live and Die Awake, which is actually the title now, you're the first person for me to share

59. Jen

    5:15that with online.

60. Julie

    5:18Anyhow, bottom line is the doctor said, I could put you in the hospital.
61. 5:23These are the words. Can you imagine this, Jen?
62. 5:26And you can die of an infection or you could go home and be with your family.
63. 5:31And she said, you know what? And then she kinda paused and she had a tear coming down her eye and she paused and she said, well, you know what?
64. 5:38Maybe I can just do a little bit more pathology and see if there's any hope of anything we can do.
65. 5:43So wait one more day. So we go back and have like this little, like, you know, like a suite hotel, like typical thing.
66. 5:50And he's like, I don't even think I can go to this meeting, Julie.
67. 5:55And my best friend had come with me who has more of a medical background doing the clinical so that I could be the wife and be present to hear whatever I could try to hear.
68. 6:03And so I went to this meeting, you know, for your listeners, you know, it's like the cold white room with the laminated tables with tissue boxes and it's like the doctor and the social worker and this is MD Anderson and they basically just said, listen, it's cholangiocarcinoma.
69. 6:21And I'd like to share that today because actually I don't know when you're gonna air this, but June of this year, 2026 is I just started today to walk for him.
70. 6:29It's a 30 mile challenge for supporting the Cholio Angio Carcinoma Foundation.
71. 6:34Oh, And we didn't... You know, by going there, we learned what the diagnosis was.
72. 6:40But tell you this, we literally, we find out, you know, I am like in shock.
73. 6:47Jim in some bizarre way is almost relieved because now he finally has answers for the first time And my best friend arranges for anybody out there also listening.
74. 6:57So important for you to know if your loved ones, but there's something I don't know if you've heard of this, but it's an Angel Medevac.
75. 7:02Have you heard of that? Mm-mm. They... My best friend Rachel arranged for them.
76. 7:06They came and took him by ambulance into an airplane, got us home all in the same day.
77. 7:14And, you know, they do it at a, I guess, a subsidized amount.
78. 7:19The insurance covered some, but it really was a lifesaving thing that they were able to provide us to get home to our children.
79. 7:28Was just an amazing... I didn't

80. Jen

    7:30even know that was a thing.

81. Julie

    7:32I know, right? And I want to, you know, looking at donating part of my book to a couple causes and there are things that really are close to our heart and they're one of them.
82. 7:40But really, you know, they allowed to give him the gift and for myself to come home and be with our boys.
83. 7:46So we came home and I know this is hard to imagine, but literally got home in the evening of a Thursday and he died one week later, 12/06/2018 at 03:33.
84. 7:58So it literally was less than a week and it was pretty immediate and hospice had came in the day after we got home.
85. 8:07And, you know, it was like, I can talk about it now.
86. 8:09We're seven and a half years later, but it was raw and it was traumatic and it was tragic and the grief was intense because who dies in three weeks?

87. Jen

    8:18Oh yeah, I know. God, so fast. So fast.

88. Julie

    8:23It was very fast. It was barely, you know, we barely had a diagnosis.
89. 8:26So it was just really, it was challenging.

90. Jen

    8:30I'm so sorry.

91. Julie

    8:32Yeah. No. I... I'm... You know, I appreciate that very much.
92. 8:35And it's just... You know, you learn to live in a different heart space and you learn to work through it in a different way.
93. 8:41And you know what I'm talking about now is moving into space of what I call living and dying awake.
94. 8:47It's, like, really guiding people to live life fully.

95. Jen

    8:49Yes.

96. Julie

    8:50You know, every day, we don't know what's gonna be.
97. 8:52I, just to kinda move my energy, and I try to be really mindful before doing a podcast like with you.
98. 8:58And I took a walk this morning and walking for this charitable walk.
99. 9:02And I I even had this mindset as I'm crossing the road, you know, Julie, be safe.
100. 9:08Like, anything can happen in a moment. Mhmm.
101. 9:10And, you know, it is that just awareness that we always have to be so mindful of how we show up to every day.
102. 9:19Absolutely. Wanting to be as completely present for you as possible and putting yourself were your boys?
103. 9:25The boys And that happens. Were... My oldest name's Jacob, and he was 19.
104. 9:31And the youngest is William, and he was 16.
105. 9:34And today, as we speak, my youngest is 24, and my oldest will be, 27 in

106. Jen

     9:39July. Oh, wow. Grief can complicate everything from relationships to brain function to finances.
107. 9:52And those are just a few. We can get so overwhelmed that we just don't know where to turn for help.
108. 9:58Widow one eighty now offers a new work book series to help widows and widowers with these common struggles that we face after losing a spouse.
109. 10:06Things like boosting your confidence, overcoming loneliness, and finding purpose again.
110. 10:12If you are struggling in widowhood, I urge you to check out the widow one eighty workbook series and get the help you need to move through this season of life with a little more ease.
111. 10:23Check out all of the workbooks at www.widow180.com/workbooks.
112. 10:29That's www.widow180.com/workbooks.
113. 10:41Devastating and heartbreaking for everyone.
114. 10:45I I... It's just hard to imagine how quickly life can change.
115. 10:51Right? You just don't think that it will ever change or in that in that way anyway.
116. 10:58No. It's heart it's heart wrenching.

117. Julie

     11:00Right? And and it it really breaks the soul.
118. 11:02I mean, I always... I talk about breaking my soul, but also breaking my soul open.
119. 11:06And so it's like, you know, I've gone through a grief process of really what does that mean?
120. 11:11How do I carry my grief? How do I share my grief with others?
121. 11:15And what does it mean for myself to be living?
122. 11:19And so a lot of choices, you know, in that space.

123. Jen

     11:23Well... Okay. So at what point did you realize that everything that you were going through with the loss and everything was gonna kind of reshape your whole professional path?

124. Julie

     11:33Oh, it it took a it took a while. Right?
125. 11:35I think it's really important for your listeners to give them that grace and to be really mindful that, nothing happens quickly and it happens on your own time and that grief, I say it all the time, it's not to be fixed and it's not for any person, family member, partner, child, and no one should define for anybody how they experience their grief.
126. 11:55Right? So it's really finding, I believe, the sacredness of how we honor the grief.
127. 12:00So at that moment, in those times, I was shattered.
128. 12:03I... There was a lot of crying, a lot of isolation.
129. 12:07We had a dog. My youngest son was still in high school.
130. 12:10So it was really about supporting him and getting him through that process.
131. 12:13My oldest son was in college and needing supports in college and a lot of family members and friends who really took on the role of being support.
132. 12:23So I talk about that, like, often. And and in my book, it's like the circle of support.
133. 12:29You know, you're tribal rooted. I talk about it as as like a tree of life.
134. 12:33But those people who came in and supported me in those moments really allowed me to breathe.
135. 12:41And so you're barely breathing in those moments.
136. 12:43And so I just really want anybody who's recently widowed to really know that be in the space and allow yourself to be in the space.
137. 12:52And I don't ever ever want to feel like I'm stepping over that time period because, I talk about it as being shattering, raw, dismantling to the soul, like, nothing that any of us are ever prepared for as you know, Jen.
138. 13:07You know? Right. Right. Prepared for it.
139. 13:09And it just it just sucks, and it breaks us open.
140. 13:12And it's as much pain as anyone can unbearably possibly imagine.
141. 13:17Right? So...

142. Jen

     13:18Did you continue working

143. Julie

     13:20or what did you do about work? Well, that's a great question.
144. 13:23And I think it's really an important conversation.
145. 13:25So I'm glad you asked the question. So we had like a private...
146. 13:28Jim wanted to... It was cremated and he wanted to have a private family service at home.
147. 13:33And so we have dear friend who's a rabbi who came and it was our closest family members and friends.
148. 13:39It was exactly the Jim... What Jim wanted.
149. 13:42I shared some words, both of the boys and his brother as well as the rabbi, and it was just very private.
150. 13:48It was very intimate. And, you know, my boss, it was interesting.
151. 13:56Shows up at the door. And I worked for a nonprofit for almost thirty years as a national education lawyer.
152. 14:02Yeah. And, I didn't know he was coming. So I just cried and hugged him.
153. 14:10And he said, of course, I'm here. He's like, you know, we are your family.
154. 14:14I know this was a family gathering, but you are our family.
155. 14:18And he was very, very kind, you know, Very kind.
156. 14:24And he... We just even talked about this a few few weeks ago actually because it was his birthday in May, and I kinda reached...
157. 14:29I I find gratitude in how we reach back to those who helped us in these darkest moments to be so important.
158. 14:36And, talking about people in grief literacy, it's like so many corporations and companies have minimum to no bereavement policies or if they have them for a spouse or a child, but not others.
159. 14:48And so it's really important how we bring the discussion of brief literacy into the workplace.
160. 14:55So I was fortunate in that he said to me, Julie, you take as much time as you need.
161. 15:00You honor the space however you need with your children.
162. 15:03Mhmm. And we are here for you as you've always been...
163. 15:06I mean, the... You know, I I literally would work for them, you know, twenty eight years.
164. 15:11And however you need is is what we will support.
165. 15:14So I think what's really interesting for people to know and even for...
166. 15:18If there's any folks that are in the employment space to really think about is that because he came to me with so much love, support, and true holding of embracing the space I was in, I was able to go back with resilience to help and go back to work earlier.
167. 15:35That's very interesting. Right? Yes. Jim died December 6.
168. 15:39We had taken a family trip at the end of the month to really go into a space of, like, hiking, healing, doing some inner work.
169. 15:47My one son, like, had to... He had plans to go to Australia.
170. 15:49He had a girlfriend at the time, and he was just...
171. 15:52He's like, I have to go. I need to just...
172. 15:54He needed just to be out in nature, and he was old enough to...
173. 15:57And it's amazing what you do as a, like, now single parent.
174. 16:00Like, the things that I said yes to, I'm thinking, like, who was I?
175. 16:04And who was in that body that I would say, okay.
176. 16:07Letting him go to Australia weeks after his dad died, but it's what he needed.
177. 16:12And so, like Yeah. He, like, listening to what their needs are.
178. 16:15It's just so interesting. But anyhow, the reason why I share is that we went back to a place that we have, like, a sanctuary of a home in the shore in New Jersey.
179. 16:25And I was there just that it was literally December 31, like, and my boss, his name is Mike at the time, he reached out to me.
180. 16:34Goes, Julie, I told you I was gonna give you time, but there's this collective bargaining lawsuit that's going on in LA, and I have to write an op ed for the LA Times, and I need you.
181. 16:44You know, can you just help me with this?
182. 16:45And, you know, I immediately said yes. Yeah.
183. 16:49It was like, how can I say no?

184. Jen

     16:52Yeah. Yeah.

185. Julie

     16:53It's like, it's part of... You know, it's interesting.
186. 16:55We talk about our identities and our identity shifting and when they shifted.
187. 16:58But at that moment in time, it was so deep rooted of who I was and what I was do...
188. 17:03Doing that natural to be supportive. And then we had a huge US Supreme Court case where there were...
189. 17:11There was a movement to take, dollars from public school education from private schools to go to to go to private schools.
190. 17:17And it was around title one. It's it's only if you were in this space that you would be familiar.
191. 17:21But anyhow, was a huge US Supreme Court case.
192. 17:24And he's... Again, this is like... So this is like March.
193. 17:27And I'm like, okay. I just have to work because there was too much going on.
194. 17:31It was too important. So what's interesting is...
195. 17:34And again, I say to everyone listening because everybody, you have to do it on your own time, on your own terms, or whatever you I felt a pull that I financially had to support my children.
196. 17:43I had to function. So, like, I had to...
197. 17:46That left brain part of me felt like I had to use my brain.
198. 17:49Yeah. I dove back into that space and it wasn't until...
199. 17:54Which is such a great question. I did not leave the council until July '22 as a as a full time.
200. 18:02Oh, wow. Okay. I continued to work with them and and told them, like, in November '21, so two years later, you know, two...
201. 18:09No. No. Already, you know, few... No more than that, almost three years.
202. 18:12And I said, you know, listen. It's time.
203. 18:14But what happened was... It's very interesting, but my kids were so young, I had to help them through their grief and hold space for them.
204. 18:22And it was almost like I couldn't allow myself to fall deep into my grief.
205. 18:27I mean, of course, I I I cried and I, you know, I had that isolation and there were all those private moments.
206. 18:35But it was like, almost, like, couldn't meet my grief fully until it was actually in the June '21 where I started working with a life coach, and that was the beginning of my shift.
207. 18:47And that life coach, his name is Mike Mezroff, but he...
208. 18:50At the time, he called himself a personal freedom coach.
209. 18:53And he, Jen, asked me tough questions about how am I living?
210. 18:59What is... Like, you're talking about, like, Eckhart Tolle, the presence of now, reading the four agreements about, you know, really where are we with our acceptance of others, our attachments?
211. 19:10Really, how was I living? And also just what I valued, what were my core beliefs?
212. 19:18Then I then also met my today partner and...
213. 19:23Who does a lot of work in neurological nerve...
214. 19:25Nervous system. He calls it neurological intelligence.
215. 19:27But he really put... Helped me, supported me, guided me, and really kind of seeing my grief in a different, much more deeper space.
216. 19:36And I think all of those openings, starting to journal, meditate, starting the process of unfolding, is what allowed me to get to a space to get deeper into my shift, if that makes sense.

217. Jen

     19:48Yes. So did you find that life coach first and then start to kind of transition into things, or did you...
218. 20:01Had this feeling and you said, okay. It's time, and then I just need some help focusing on my grief.
219. 20:06Did you also get a therapist, like a grief counselor as well as a life coach?
220. 20:11I have a million questions.

221. Julie

     20:13So there's a lot of questions. So let me...
222. 20:14I'll order... I'll try to I'll try to give you an answer in a little bit of a synchronized So first off, right after after Jim died, we had a huge meeting in March 2019 in Washington.
223. 20:25And Claire Bedwell Smith, who's a major author on grief Yes.
224. 20:30I was reading one of her first books. And on the back of it, you know, I was reading about her.
225. 20:36I'm like, okay. What are the chances that she would work one on one with anybody?
226. 20:40I don't know, but this is my personality.
227. 20:42So I reached out to her and I'm like, is there any chance that you do private work?
228. 20:47And you know what? She did at the time.

229. Jen

     20:49Oh, okay.

230. Julie

     20:50So I was able to start working with her for the first few years, went to a retreat she had at the Art of Living in the fall of twenty one.
231. 21:01So I was aware of needing to go into deep space for my grief.
232. 21:05I tried some EMDR. It was fair. I worked in a healing modality.
233. 21:11I don't know. It's so important. I want everyone to hear this.
234. 21:13Like, follow what comes to you and what feels right for you.
235. 21:17But it's a woman, her... And Sarasota, who now has cranial sacral and does other healing touch methodologies.
236. 21:24But she helped me literally somatically come in touch with the grief that was, I'm sure you can relate to this, that was deeply stuck inside of my body.
237. 21:34Oh yeah. Yeah. Going to her, there's a lot of purging, lot of crying, a lot of releasing, literally, of energy that was very, very stock.
238. 21:43So I've been on this trajectory of, like, okay, what shows up?
239. 21:47So, yes, your typical, you know, brief therapy.
240. 21:51Yes. Some, you know, EMDR. EFT tapping. You know, anything that I could kinda put my hands on.

241. Jen

     21:57Yeah. Things

242. Julie

     21:59that kind of opened me more as we talk about will be things that even came later.
243. 22:03But that all I think I would say, like, primed me for the life coach.
244. 22:08So what happened was we were in Colorado for my dad's birthday as a family, and it's a great story.
245. 22:15And we were outside sitting at this place in Breckenridge, Colorado.
246. 22:21And I hear these two men. They're sitting side by side, and they're looking in these journals, and they're talking about gratitude, Jen.
247. 22:29I'm like I'm like, what is going on? Don't think I've ever visually witnessed two men having these deep conversation about gratitude in life, especially in a public space.
248. 22:41Right? Right. So nosy me. You know? I literally get up, and I'm like, hi.
249. 22:48I'm Julie. You know? And I'm like, I'm so curious.
250. 22:52Like, what are you doing?

251. Jen

     22:54Yeah. Yeah.

252. Julie

     22:54This is the real story. And Mike goes, well, I'm as the...
253. 22:59You know, I'm a freedom... Personal life freedom coach.
254. 23:02And it's a client. And I'm here in Brackenburg.
255. 23:05He's now in Costa Rica, but he's like, do you want to meet and have coffee?
256. 23:10And I'm like, okay. And so my parents are like, don't even know.
257. 23:14And I'm like,

258. Jen

     23:14and I'm gonna go have coffee. No, no, no.

259. Julie

     23:17What's this? It's meant

260. Jen

     23:18to be something So is

261. Julie

     23:21he and I had like an introductory call and that was my dad's birthday is June 11.
262. 23:26So I must have been like right around that I met him.
263. 23:28And then I hired him July 6. Oh my gosh.
264. 23:33Yeah. It's really pretty incredible. And then I met the gentleman that I'm dating online.
265. 23:38We started... Initially connected that around the twelfth or the July 13.
266. 23:41And then we meet that and we're... And started dating like on the '20...
267. 23:45Like, in that time frame, the twenty first of that month.
268. 23:47So

269. Jen

     23:47Oh my gosh.

270. Julie

     23:49It's very interesting how you talk about alignment and how allowing ourselves to really allowing things to flow.
271. 23:57So that was the beginning. So it's like, yes, I think I was just...
272. 24:00I was open to having a life coach. And I will say to you, I remember my left brain, like for all of you listening, because I am a life transformational soul coach.
273. 24:08I do this work with people now and it is such a blessing to be able to help guide others.
274. 24:13But in that moment, it was like I... When I say leap, I even talk about leaping in my book.
275. 24:19But I... For me, it was like I could see...
276. 24:22You think about the pirate ship, I could see, like, going down the trajectory of walking down the platform.
277. 24:27And I was like, okay. Can I do this? And can I walk off the plank and just jump?
278. 24:33And I finally, you know, we had a conversation.
279. 24:36I was like, know, at some point I have to listen to that inner voice that was saying, yes, Julie, do this.
280. 24:42And that was really the beginning, I believe, of trusting myself and listening to what would come forward in the past...
281. 24:51I mean, really, already? Gosh. Yay. It's my dad's birthday soon

282. Jen

     24:55Yeah. Past five years.

283. Julie

     24:57So it's really been a process. And so

284. Jen

     25:00love that story. I love that story. And I talk about this a lot on the podcast is paying attention to what's happening around you and not dismissing it and brushing off someone else's conversation that is a sign for you happening right next to you.
285. 25:19I mean, how random is that? It's not random, but it is...
286. 25:21It's a synchronicity that you just have to pay attention to the things that are pushing you in the direction that you are supposed to go.

287. Julie

     25:29Absolutely. And I... And and, you know, I think what's so important is is, like, intuitively, because I do a lot with intuition, deeply listening because we will be given the signs.
288. 25:39The questions are, will we answer the call?
289. 25:41Yes. We are definitely divinely guided. So the question is, okay, that's gonna happen, but what do we do with it?
290. 25:51And I think earlier in the journey when we're in such deep grief, it's harder to accept that.
291. 25:57But the more we open, the more we unfold, I I know I talk about this in my book, The Vowels of Presence.
292. 26:03The more we become present with our pain and we witness it and we decide that we can rise from it, allowing, just allowing ourselves to be in it, that's our awakening.
293. 26:14That's the beauty.

294. Jen

     26:15That's the beauty. I call

295. Julie

     26:16it the beauty through the pain. It is truly the beauty through the pain.
296. 26:19And that's hard to hear sometimes, but it's the truth.
297. 26:22It it it does arrive.

298. Jen

     26:23Yes. Oh my gosh. I love all of this. So let's talk a little bit about, about your book and how that kind of came to me.
299. 26:33Yeah. Oh gosh.

300. Julie

     26:35Yes. You know what? It's really... I love your questions and it's fun.
301. 26:38That's why I say I don't like pre questions because, like, you never know where you're gonna go.
302. 26:42So this is really kind of interesting as well.
303. 26:44So when Jim died, one thing that I did, I've always been deeply intuitive.
304. 26:49Always had... I had experience with a grandfather, like, like, a visitation when I was very young.
305. 26:54I've always known things before they've happened.
306. 26:58I have a very strong sense of reading between the words so I can hear things that people don't say, but clear cognizance and just really being in that space.
307. 27:07So the reason why I shared that, there there was a...
308. 27:09There is a medium. Her name is Tina Powers.
309. 27:12She works out of Miraval Resorts and also privately.
310. 27:15You can find her at tinapowers.com. It's not inexpensive, but people speak to her from around the world truly.
311. 27:22And I talked to her about six months after Jim died, and I needed help at that point dealing with different financial issues.
312. 27:29I just... I needed help to answer questions.
313. 27:32And this goes to the death relationship that we'll talk about later, but why we need to help those that we love how to prepare before we die so that we don't have all these questions when people do die and not are stuck in a practical aspect with problems.
314. 27:45So Tina and I, I went... We went to Miraval right after Jim died.

315. Jen

     27:49I've always wanted to go there. Oh my gosh.

316. Julie

     27:51Okay. So... But that was the... Oh, no. That was Canyon Ranch actually that we went to after Jim died and that was in December right after 2018.
317. 27:58Oh, okay. And and then I'd hadn't met her yet.
318. 28:02And then I... It was in 2019, like, six months later that I talked to her over the phone for the first time.
319. 28:09Okay. On that call, I'm telling you, Jen, it was crazy.
320. 28:12I literally was laughing hysterically and crying at the same time.
321. 28:17Yeah. Because I genuinely had a conversation with him, a real conversation on the other side.
322. 28:24Like, he was completely present and he had me and he's like telling me...
323. 28:28She's like, oh, he's funny. And oh, he just said this and he said to you...
324. 28:31He's like telling me not to repeat certain things he's telling me.
325. 28:34And he was... Was just hysterical. It was really, really, really funny.
326. 28:38So it gave me, like, so much comfort because they were...
327. 28:41And he was making fun too. He goes, Julie, all of your incense and your oracle cards and all your woo woo stuff while I was alive and I thought you were just nuts.
328. 28:49And and here I am talking to you. Yeah. Like, so, like, we were, like, laughing about And so that was the first communication.
329. 28:58And then in December, I feel like it was...
330. 29:01I feel like, oh, no. No. It was my mother's birthday in '22.
331. 29:04We all went back to... But this time to Miraval, and I was scheduled to to meet with Tina.
332. 29:10And, I had a lot of questions. But during that time, she goes to me, oh, Julie, you're gonna write a book about letting go.
333. 29:18She's like, don't know what the title of it's gonna be, but it's gonna be about letting go.
334. 29:23And let me tell you something. I initially thought the title was gonna be Divine Ashes Ascending because I had this connection with Jim and his ashes and myself, and it's a whole another story.
335. 29:33But the bottom line is that was for me. That was my experience for my own rising, my own, like, kind of awakening.
336. 29:39Mhmm. But she... Like, saying letting go, like, and die awake is a little little closer to that.
337. 29:45And, yeah, she was kinda... Like, that was the first, like, whisper, I would say, in my ear.
338. 29:51Right? Yes. And then I continued, with my current partner, we went to Sedona Sedona, and we did a retreat with something called Sedona Soul Adventures.
339. 30:00And I did something so interesting. Can't...
340. 30:02Like, I never know where these podcasts are gonna go.
341. 30:04But there is a woman, her name is Mary Fleming, but she reads like not your hand, but the fingerprints.
342. 30:10And the belief is, is that in utero sixteen weeks, our sole purpose is divinely designed.

343. Jen

     30:17Wow. Okay. Never heard of that. Okay.

344. Julie

     30:20Right. So she gives me this inroad to seeing myself as a healer, teacher, guide, and understanding two things that my divine purpose initially was to find balance and harmony.
345. 30:33So I had to get through my grief and it's not ever over because you're never over.
346. 30:37You're always... It is part of who we are.
347. 30:39But I had to walk my way through it in a much more...
348. 30:42Give... Just do the work, I would say. Yes.
349. 30:44And then my divine purpose, which is still still a lot of work.
350. 30:50It's just like we're talking about is having trust in the universe.
351. 30:54And what does that mean? Right? Is having faith, having trust, having the sense of certainty even when we can't know what that is.
352. 31:02So right, I am bringing my book alive into this movement.
353. 31:07Like, literally, it is being born to working with...
354. 31:09We have empath Tidewell Health in Sarasota, sharing it with other places throughout the state of Florida, you know, god willing, as we're working on it now, and working with these producers of a film called, a butterfly has been released.
355. 31:22There is t g t g... What's it called? T g Beyond.
356. 31:27But they are these two producers, and they have a whole thing about degutainment and education, and they're great guys, Jason and Barry.
357. 31:35And they followed a documentary of a hospice nurse in her final days to honor, like, death with dignity and how you could die with hospice or on your own terms around agency.
358. 31:46So I'm working with my book with these producers about their film, A Butterfly Has Been Released, and also with this hospice agency where I volunteer.
359. 31:56And I'm only in my beginning spaces of its death doula work, but working with them to bring a whole another conversation to the end of life.
360. 32:04And for me, it's not... I don't want people...
361. 32:06Like, I want people to hear this that are listening.
362. 32:09It's not about the dying. It is about how do we live now so that when we die, we can meet it with grace.
363. 32:17Right?

364. Jen

     32:17Mhmm.

365. Julie

     32:18So it's like if we're living fully right now in this moment and you and I are completely present soul to soul with each other.
366. 32:24Right? Just meeting here, sharing the space today.
367. 32:29Then when it comes to the point that we release our souls in this time period, we can do it without resentment, without regret.
368. 32:37Right. Book... I have a part of my book.
369. 32:39It's Colin Tipple. It's an author. Great book.
370. 32:42I recommend to everybody called Radical Forgiveness.
371. 32:44And I talk about what he shares in his book and mine.
372. 32:48But it's really our forgiveness of others.
373. 32:51It's not about them. It's about ourselves.
374. 32:53It's about releasing in our own souls so that we can heal so that we can be more at peace and have calm within ourselves.
375. 33:00So everything that I'm teaching in the book, it's a it's a modality.
376. 33:04It's basically a transformational healing arc.
377. 33:07I take the reader through, like, my memoir, my story.
378. 33:11Then at the end of of several... Like, most chapters, then there's a meditation.
379. 33:16And then there's a ref... What I call a reflection pause.
380. 33:20So you can basically journal your way through the book for your whole own healing.
381. 33:25So the idea is, yes, it could be death, but it could be loss of any kind.
382. 33:29It could be divorce. It could be a breakup in this real world of somebody who's alive that you're not connected to.
383. 33:35It could be loss of a girlfriend, of a partner, of any...
384. 33:37A child, anything. Right? A job. Yes. We feel...
385. 33:41We experience loss every day in our lives, and people don't talk about them.

386. Jen

     33:46I know. There's so many different type. Yeah.
387. 33:49I know.

388. Julie

     33:49I have a lot of friends. Like, I've... You know, I'm in my fifties now.
389. 33:52Have a lot of friends. One of my best friends just lost her dad.
390. 33:56Her mother died actually a five year... You know, 21.
391. 33:59And the loss of just kinda, you know, the idea of being an orphan in this world or, you know, just finding ways.
392. 34:08Our aging parents... I have friends, you know, including, you know, that are not well.
393. 34:11We have aging parents and trying to... You shift from a parent, you know, sibling child relationship that that...
394. 34:18There's a transition in there that's uncomfortable that people don't really talk about.

395. Jen

     34:22Yes.

396. Julie

     34:22And it could really be beautiful if we meet it in a beautiful way.
397. 34:26You know?

398. Jen

     34:26Yeah. Yeah.

399. Julie

     34:27There's opportunity in that space. But my point to you is there's, like, there's grief, loss, death everywhere.
400. 34:34So my book is intended... I want anybody to be able to open it in any chapter and to be able to focus on what is it they need.
401. 34:41Yes. Is the book out yet? Yeah. The book will...
402. 34:45Well, the date officially is gonna be to honor my mom's birthday.
403. 34:48It's November 4. Okay. It's... Well, it's definitely going...
404. 34:52It's in the... Did final line edit. The proofreader has it as of today.
405. 34:57Oh, that's exciting. Publisher will have it this month.
406. 35:01And I'm I'm actually working with a group.
407. 35:03It's called Thought Leader Academy. But there's a woman by her name is Sarah Cannell, and she works with another the publisher, Jane and Belle Myers.
408. 35:11But they're a great team. And it's this amazing community of women.
409. 35:15And I think what I've been really drawn to is just how much they just work together and support one another.
410. 35:21And it's collaborative rather than competitive.
411. 35:24Love that. As women. And so it's really...
412. 35:27There... Everybody is, like, writing from different spaces, but they're leading movements at different places in their lives.

413. Jen

     35:33I am familiar with Sarah. I listened to her podcast.
414. 35:36I

415. Julie

     35:36don't think,

416. Jen

     35:37I don't know if she's doing it anymore. Then Oh, is doing it very regularly.
417. 35:40Is. Okay. I gotta check. I gotta go back and I check that out gotta you,

418. Julie

     35:43she has a new book. It's called, I have no problem sharing.
419. 35:46She has a new book. It's called The Download and that's coming out in October.
420. 35:50And she... It's all about manifestation.
421. 35:53So, she has a sub stack and she's she's doing great work.
422. 35:56And she's... You know, I really... I'm talking about life coaches.
423. 35:59She's now my coach in this mastermind. There's always a space for any of us, Jen.
424. 36:04You know, myself for others, others for myself, but for us to keep growing.

425. Jen

     36:09Yes. I know. I... She... I had another widow on here.
426. 36:13Gosh. It was a long time ago. This has probably been a couple of years.
427. 36:16And she also worked with Sarah to to get her book out as well.
428. 36:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

429. Julie

     36:22She's not... She's... You know, they're just...
430. 36:24The the thing is is, like, she has a great business, but she's really...
431. 36:27They are just all about integrity. Yes. There's...
432. 36:30And there's a lot of kindness and support and love.

433. Jen

     36:33Very much a supportive community. That's amazing.
434. 36:37Well, okay. Let's talk about the Rising Phoenix life.
435. 36:43You have put together... Is it a community, or talk talk to us a little bit about this side of your life and what you're creating.

436. Julie

     36:51So it's interesting. This was the first part I created.
437. 36:54Right? And this actually came out earlier.
438. 36:56So as you're talking again, like, at this trajectory of things, it's it's it's kinda interesting as a timeline.
439. 37:01But I created first in June '23. It's Rising Phoenix Coaching and doing business as Rising Phoenix Life.
440. 37:09And I started doing one on one. I did transformational soul coaching course out with a group out of Sedona as well.
441. 37:15And that whole idea, this is what's so interesting.
442. 37:18And if anybody's interesting, I... I'm here.
443. 37:20I'm available. I have maybe five slots available.
444. 37:23But I go into it into a spiritual space.
445. 37:26Right? So when we talk about being in alignment, like I would say to you, Jen, you're living your purpose and your passion.
446. 37:32You lost your husband. You went to the islands.
447. 37:35You're doing this work now. You are living in purpose and passion.
448. 37:39Every day you wake up and you are making meaning in your life.
449. 37:44That's my work. My work is to help people find what is that purpose and passion, what is real in their life so they're living a life of meaning.
450. 37:54Not for me to tell you what that is. That's not my role.
451. 37:57Role is one solely of guidance using all kinds of different tools and techniques to help guide.
452. 38:05I also, you know, have had the honor of working with other widows, people in deep grief coming out of a...
453. 38:11Just a sudden death. It just depends on kinda who shows up.
454. 38:16Also, it's people in transition and different...
455. 38:19But just like myself. Right? Going from national education attorney to transformational soul coach, death doula.
456. 38:25So working with people and pivots. Right?
457. 38:27Really pivoting to honor, again, that alignment that you and I are talking about.
458. 38:32Like, it's like listening. It's like, who who am I really intended to be?

459. Jen

     38:37Who and

460. Julie

     38:38what and why am I here in this earth, in this body at this time?
461. 38:43And it's not about for me. I'm not interested in working with people on like egos or outcomes or getting this particular job.
462. 38:51I'm interested in people finding themselves so they can heal inner pain that they may be carrying.
463. 38:56So somatically, they can release that and also step into a place of great healing and awakening.

464. Jen

     39:06I would like to invite you to get our latest freebie designed just for you.
465. 39:12How to get your life back together after loss.
466. 39:14A 10 step checklist. After countless hours of research, interviewing hundreds of widows, and through my own experience with grief, I have compiled this list of the 10 steps you need to take to put your life back together after losing a loved one.
467. 39:29It's normal to feel overwhelmed and also normal to not know where to start when it comes to picking up the pieces of your shattered world.
468. 39:37Here's where you start. You can get this free 10 step checklist at www.widow180.com/freebie.
469. 39:45That's www.widow180.com/freebie.
470. 39:54So how do you start guiding someone when...
471. 39:58Because I talk about identity shifts a lot.
472. 40:01You know it. I know it. We've been there.
473. 40:04We feel it. It's everything that you know and is familiar about yourself and that you know about yourself or you label yourself changes.
474. 40:14And so how do you kind of... What's that first step that you sit down with, like, a new client and you kind of talk them through transitioning a transformation?
475. 40:26What do they need to do first?

476. Julie

     40:28I think, you know, Jen, though, that what's most important really, honestly, is listening.
477. 40:33Right? Because when you know when we're in deep grief, we don't want anybody...
478. 40:37There's nothing to fix. There's nothing to do, but it's really listening.
479. 40:42And each of our stories are different. Right?
480. 40:45So it's holding each soul as a... Like almost like as a newborn because your identity has been reborn.
481. 40:52You are in a place of rebirth because of the death, because of the deep pain.
482. 40:57You know, it's every one of us, no matter your circumstances, they're different.
483. 41:03So you have to... I have to show up to one to be in a place of deep presence.
484. 41:08So really listening to see where that person is, asking the questions so that they can really reflect on where they are and to go within to see where is it that they feel so guided for their own healing process.
485. 41:23And then I will start to guide them based on whatever that is.
486. 41:28So, you know, for example, are you familiar with the Ponopono prayer?
487. 41:33Yes. Okay. So beautiful Hawaiian prayer, you know, saying you're sorry, saying thank you.
488. 41:40Yeah. Saying I love you, you know, showing gratitude.
489. 41:44It's a complete, you know, just four simple statements, but it is having also love for yourself.
490. 41:52So I think that self care, that self compassion, that grace for anyone showing up is part of the beginning work.
491. 41:59So it's one, not telling stories and being stuck in the past.
492. 42:04We really have to find our way to the presence.
493. 42:07And in my book, I talk about those seven presence vows.
494. 42:11But that first step, like you're asking me, what's the first step?
495. 42:14Is like, how do I help somebody be in a state of presence with where they are in their life?
496. 42:21Yeah. Okay? It's not about... Listen. It sucks.
497. 42:24It's it's so so dismantling, as I say to the soul of, like, how does my husband die at 51?
498. 42:31Why is it that my children lost their father?
499. 42:34Why is it that I don't get to grow old with him?
500. 42:36You know, why is it that other people have their families?
501. 42:40Like, those are typical questions that we ask in the very beginning because you can't see beyond yourself.
502. 42:46And that's normal. It's completely natural.
503. 42:49I want people to know it's more than natural.
504. 42:51Right? But then when you can get past that space that you can start to have gratitude for quiet morning walk in nature, and you can start to journal to come in connection with yourself.
505. 43:05You could come into alignment to see what healers are available, or I can work with you in somatic ways to release the pain that you're holding.
506. 43:14There's so many different ways for us to guide another to start to even connect with a loved one on the other side.
507. 43:22You know, the the... It's it's just the opportunities

508. Jen

     43:25are endless. Yes. And, well, I have a question about, like, I guess, timing of things.
509. 43:31Because you mentioned before, like, when you are deep in grief and you you feel like you're drowning and you can't even see that there's any kind of future ahead for you, You don't even wanna think about transformation or anything.
510. 43:44Like, is there a point that's kind of like, it's too soon?
511. 43:48Like, you have to do the grief work and you have to get through that or, you know

512. Julie

     43:52You know, absolutely. You know, without any question.
513. 43:55Right? And I think, you know, it's... It wouldn't be for me to say what that timing is and it wouldn't be...
514. 44:00And the one thing I want everyone to hear this, this is really important, and it's not for anyone else to tell you what the timing should be.
515. 44:07Right? It's not for a parent to be like, are you over with this yet?
516. 44:10Or or or a girlfriend to say like, you know, enough.
517. 44:13Let's let's... I thought it was going to puke.
518. 44:16How many people like wanted to set me up with people?
519. 44:18I'm like, I am not interested. You know?
520. 44:20Like, seriously, like, leave me alone. And so it's it's...
521. 44:24I think you have to really respect the person going through the grief.
522. 44:28That's why I say you have to start with simply sitting with, being that guide, listening, and being present.
523. 44:36Because anybody going through it, they will tell you...
524. 44:39Sometimes they just want to tell stories about the person that died.
525. 44:42Maybe I always say, say their name. I talk about Jim, you know, it's seven and

526. Jen

     44:46a half years later. I just, I'm doing

527. Julie

     44:48this walk for cholangiocarcinoma today and I'm saying his name and I'm talking to you saying his name.
528. 44:55And his soul is alive through me every day.
529. 44:59So honor it for what works for you. But I would say to you, as far as being deep in it, it's really hard for people that haven't experienced deep grief to understand it.
530. 45:12And I know I know this today, like there are people who felt, you know, I isolated a good bit.
531. 45:17I couldn't talk to people. I didn't wanna talk to anybody that was not in my inner circle.
532. 45:22For me, it was strictly survival in the very beginning.
533. 45:25You know, taking my dog out, feeding my dog, getting my son to school, making sure he had meals, whatever he might have needed for sports or otherwise.
534. 45:34Eventually, at some point applying for colleges, supporting my other son who was in college.
535. 45:39You know, it was literally just survival day to day to meet their needs as they were going through their own anxiety, grief, anger around how does a child lose a parent in three weeks.
536. 45:52Right? Right. Right. How does that happen?
537. 45:54Like, how is it that one day my dad is here and the next day my dad is gone?
538. 45:58Like, literally. It really... You know? And and and and know it because an instant death is an instant death.
539. 46:03You have no opportunity. So, yes, I had a...
540. 46:07We had a little bit extra time, but so many...
541. 46:11You know, it's like that's why we... Death is a different death.

542. Jen

     46:14Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I know. It's a it's it's a difficult path.
543. 46:21Everybody has a different path. And, I mean, we're all kind of walking together on this, but...
544. 46:28Yeah.

545. Julie

     46:29And I like that you say that walking together.
546. 46:31Right? I'm finding, like, I am so empowered and excited by the other women that are out there that are holding space for one another.
547. 46:40You know? I was on a wonderful conversation that I had a week or so ago with a group that's...
548. 46:46Was it almost like... It felt like The View.
549. 46:47There were several women that are... And I saw that you actually did a podcast like this.
550. 46:50You had several widows on the same time.
551. 46:52Yes. And and so That was fun. Yeah. But I think it's really important.
552. 46:56Right? Like, I would say to you, you wanna do it again and invite others.
553. 46:59Like, I would love to do it when the book comes out.
554. 47:01Yes. Like, it's really... I don't wanna say fun because it...
555. 47:05But it is fun. I think it's like, you know, we are supporting each other.
556. 47:08Right. We're letting each other know no matter what...
557. 47:10Every experience may be different, but yet it's it's making it okay to be in that deep grief.
558. 47:17It's okay when you start to transform out of it in different ways.
559. 47:21There's no... I I... There's just no right or wrong at all.
560. 47:25Right. Then. You know? So I think walking it together, I love that you said it like that.
561. 47:31And it's it's just... It's a path that continues to curve.
562. 47:34It's a journey. You know? It continues to move.
563. 47:37And and I feel like as I take the reader through my book, that's what it is.
564. 47:42It's just a pathway. It's a pathway to your own healing.
565. 47:46Working on the subtitle, part of me is like it's on love, loss and living fully.
566. 47:50And part of me is like it's a sacred pathway to presence, love, and compassion.
567. 47:55And so it's like... Or grace. You know? It's like, what what is it?
568. 47:59But it's all sacred. Whatever it is, it's sacred.
569. 48:02And it... And it's our own journey.

570. Jen

     48:05It is. I love that. Wow. I'm so looking forward to that coming out.
571. 48:10That's so exciting.

572. Julie

     48:12Thank you.

573. Jen

     48:12Okay. So let's, we're gonna kind of get wrapped up, but please tell everyone where we can find you.

574. Julie

     48:20Yeah. So my easiest is my website is literally risingphoenix.life.
575. 48:24So anybody can type that in. Also, I just...
576. 48:28My email again is julie@risingphoenix.life.
577. 48:32I have a substack that's living and dying awake.
578. 48:37Okay. That's substack.com. And also, you happen to be on LinkedIn.
579. 48:41I'm a regular on LinkedIn. It's Julie Wright Halbert, h a l b e r t.
580. 48:46And I'm very engaged there as well. So really it's my Substack LinkedIn, but go to my website if you want to consider.
581. 48:54I offer a free discovery call just to have a conversation.
582. 48:57If you're interested in coaching, I do have a few open slots right this moment.

583. Jen

     49:02And

584. Julie

     49:02also just to find out about the book or get a free meditation for a book.
585. 49:07So

586. Jen

     49:07Okay. I'm gonna put all of those links in the show notes so everybody can find you very easily.
587. 49:12And Julie, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here today.

588. Julie

     49:15So much fun.

589. Jen

     49:18Thanks for listening to widow one eighty, the podcast, and allowing me to be part of your day.
590. 49:25If you love the show, please let us know by leaving a review and sharing this episode with a friend.
591. 49:31Let us know how the show is changing your life by saying hi on social media, on Facebook, widow one eighty the community, or Instagram at widow one eighty.
592. 49:42Need more support in widowhood? Check out the widow one eighty workbook series where we can help transform your life with everything from early grief to dating again.
593. 49:54That's at www.widow180.com/workbooks. And for weekly inspiration and messages of hope, get our free weekly newsletter at www.widow180.com/newsletter.
594. 50:10Thanks again for listening. I'm here for you and cheering you on every step of the way.
595. 50:16See you next time.

Machine transcribed, so names, some words and who is speaking may be off. Tap a line to listen from there. Julie on Widow 180, with Jen Zwinck. Also on Apple Podcasts.